Match pistols .32 S&W Long WC: None perfect?

[FAS owner]

Thanks, David, for your exact and in depth information concerning the FAS pistols. The shooting public needs persons like you.

By the way, do you happen to know what could be done to fix the ever reoccuring feeding problems of the older FAS .22 autos? Typically the slide, on its return, will hit the upper cartridge in the magasine just rear of the case mouth, resulting in a feeding jam.
We have exchanged recoil springs, trigger units (your "hammerbox"), tried recoil springs of different strenghts, new magazines. To no avail.
Do you have any suggestions, David?

[David Levene]

By the way, do you happen to know what could be done to fix the ever reoccuring feeding problems of the older FAS .22 autos? Typically the slide, on its return, will hit the upper cartridge in the magasine just rear of the case mouth, resulting in a feeding jam.
We have exchanged recoil springs, trigger units (your "hammerbox"), tried recoil springs of different strenghts, new magazines. To no avail.
Do you have any suggestions, David?

What ammunition are you using. It is quite a few years since I last carried out the excercise but I found that US made ammunition was frequently longer than European ammunition by a few tens of thous'. This slightly longer ammunition was causing it to sit too "bullet-up" in the magazine.

Does this problem happen with all magazines. Have you tried the newer pressed steel magazines as well as the older folded steel type.

If the problem only occurs when feeding the second round then it is almost certainly the magazine catch itself allowing the magazine to sit slightly too high in the gun. When firing the first shot, the increased pressure of 4 rounds in the magazine tends to slow the slide down so that it doesn't go back far enough and doesn't catch the rim of the top round when it returns.

One simple thing to check which is often overlooked, check with a torch that you do not have an empty case caught under the spring at the bottom of the magazine well. If you have ever fired the gun without a magazine in place then you are almost certain to have had a case in the well as the case ejector is built into the mag. If overlooked, that case can cause havoc.

There are many different reasons for the problem you have described. It is extremely difficult to diagnose at long distance.

[JohnK]

I think this thread on the .32 is great!
I have a question for those with far greater experience and knowledge with these guns than I.
Can any of you suggest the series of adjustments I need to make to my Unqiue 32U to give it a "long roll" trigger?
I can't seem to get it right on my own.
Thanks!
JLK

[FAS-owner]

Hi, David.

Let me ask you this: The extractor of my .32 FAS (which also assists the ejection of the spent case) "disappeared" after less than 2000 rounds, as fas as I recon.

I noticed just prior to this that the ejector got stuck a few times, pointing at an angle outward to the right. I managed to reposition it, but then suddenly it was gone.
I have heard about similar experiences from other .32 FAS owners. One told mee he just kept on firing. The spent cases were now thrown out of the gun by hitting the magazine and/or the tip of the next round.
I notice when doing so that the cases are now not throw so well clear of the gun.
What are your experiences on this, David? (Is there a 6 monthly exchange period on the extractor too?)

JohnK: The Unique .32 are claimed to fire two "shots" in one. One is the bullet heading towards he target. The other is the spent casing been hurled like a speeding bullet at a 45 degree angle to the right. Much like a H & K semiauto rifle. Outdoors, this means that you have to spend quite a while searching for your brass.

I have been informed that some simply remove the ejector of the Unique, to let the spent brass gather more closely to the bench. They also claim that reliability is not affected.

[David Levene]

I noticed just prior to this that the ejector got stuck a few times, pointing at an angle outward to the right. I managed to reposition it, but then suddenly it was gone.
I have heard about similar experiences from other .32 FAS owners. One told mee he just kept on firing. The spent cases were now thrown out of the gun by hitting the magazine and/or the tip of the next round.
I notice when doing so that the cases are now not throw so well clear of the gun.
What are your experiences on this, David? (Is there a 6 monthly exchange period on the extractor too?)

You are talking about the extractor, the ejector is actually the bit of the magazine that the extracted case hits.

The correct fitting of the extractor can only be described as "fiddley". Once you think that you have got it into position, flick it quite a few times to make sure that is seated properly. I have tried to think of a way of describing the fitting procedure, and failed miserably.

Remember that, in common with most blow-back pistols, the only use for the extractor is to ensure that the empty case is pivoted away from the gun. It certainly has nothing to do with pulling the empty case out of the chamber during the normal firing sequence. On the contrary, the empty case is actually pushing the extractor backwards (via the slide).

I remember that my extractor decided to dis-appear during one match. The only way I knew was that the flight patern of the empty cases became eratic. It certainly didn't stop me from completing the match. I may be wrong but it is the only time I can remember replacing my extractor.

[JohnK]

I have no problems with brass.
I have the Unique brass catcher attached, similar to the ones I have seen on Hammerli .32's.
I never loose or have to look for an empty case.
Before using this device I don't think it threw the empty any harder or any further than the Walther .32's I have seen.

[James Hurr]

This is an old thread, but I have a few questions which could answered thanks to the passage of time:

- Does anyone have experience of the Tesro 0.32?

- Why are Toz revolvers described as unforgiving? I guess a revolver with a clean break trigger, longer lock time than most Autos and a low velocity cartridge is likely to be a bit tricky.

- Do all Unique frames crack eventually or did it get sorted out at some time before they ceased production? If so what frame number are they OK from?

Which 0.32 would you buy? Options here seem to be Manuhrin, GSP, Toz, Pardini etc, none of which are very appealing. FAS seem to be unavailable.

[Mako]

Why is the Pardini unappealing? Just looks? I LOVED my Pardini's. Italian sport pistols just seem to "get on target" so well in my hands. My .22 Pardini wouldn't shoot (feed actually) any old round, but my .32 was never fussy ... although I settled down to my own reloads.

... sold, to help pay for my SCCA Solo racing ...

[James Hurr]

Pardinis are not my personal preference as they are too nose heavy.
We also had one in our club which would not work with any ammunition, 0.32 SW+L was never intended for autos.

[Mako]

I wouldn't disagree that the .32 should be replaced with the 9 mm ... or?

[James Hurr]

I don't see why 0.32ACP could not be made to shoot well, or maybe a rimless variant of 0.32 S+WL?

9mm is high pressure and relatively small powder volume for the size of bullet.

[Mako]

For my .32 reloads I was using 1.2 grs of Lapua N310 with a 100 grs. bullet.

Why not use a common cartridge like 9 mm? Our specialty size doesn't seem to be economical for gun or ammo makers.

The .32 S&W Long has very unstable flight/ballistic characteristics. I once was standing to the side while test firing from a stand. The sun was in such a position that I saw the dramatic huge spiral that the bullet took down range. If you were sitting on the ground about 25' in front of and below the pistol you would have been hit. I thought that was "impossible," but found a german ballistic site that showed exactly that flight pattern!

[James Hurr]

Can you remember the website details?
I saw this also with 0.38 wadcutters but assumed I imagined it.

[Mako]

yes, the .38 showed the same type of flight characteristic, not quite as bad if I recall ... I assume the wadcutter aspect doesn't help! I get a message that the site is no longer available. Will look around some more ....

[Trident]

I was looking at Tiger's original post, and I have owned both a Hammerli 280 and a Walther GSP. The Hammerli 280 I traded in when the first show would throw a shot 3 - 4 inches high and then the rest would group consistantly out of a 5 shot group.

The Walther GSP which I now own is great. I have had no problems with reliability or feeding with the .32 conversion unit or the .22 GSP Expert. It has been shot probably 5,000 rounds (in .32 S&W) over the last few years. I have the old style single stage trigger which I prefer and have never had anything break on it. I do maintain my pistols religiously, but the GSP could really go on with less maintenance from what my experience has been with it. We used these on our collegiate pistol team in .22 form and maintenance was attrocious at best before I got there. We never had any breakage on those triggers either.

I did not see any mention of the Erma on this thread. Does anybody shoot one of those? They looked pretty well made.

[Guesting]

I did not see any mention of the Erma on this thread. Does anybody shoot one of those? They looked pretty well made.

Here in Europa the Erma brand is assosiated with budget-priced guns. Not very long lasting, and probably less intended for serious match work.
Erma, Reck, etc, are not guns for the serious marksman. Sorry.

[Bill Poole]

... sold, to help pay for my SCCA Solo racing ...

They are now together happily living and shooting in Phoenix :)

Poole

[Fred]

I did not see any mention of the Erma on this thread. Does anybody shoot one of those? They looked pretty well made.

Here in Europa the Erma brand is assosiated with budget-priced guns. Not very long lasting, and probably less intended for serious match work.
Erma, Reck, etc, are not guns for the serious marksman. Sorry.

"Guesting",

Certainly Erma made many budget type guns, but they also made the 85A semi-autos (.22 and .32) and a series of target revolvers, that were very well made and priced accordingly. Both Don Nygord and Darius Young - two of the all-time top US shooters - used Erma 85As at some time in their careers. If these shooters were/are not serious marksmen, I don't know who is.

FredB

[Trident]

"Guesting",

Certainly Erma made many budget type guns, but they also made the 85A semi-autos (.22 and .32) and a series of target revolvers, that were very well made and priced accordingly. Both Don Nygord and Darius Young - two of the all-time top US shooters - used Erma 85As at some time in their careers. If these shooters were/are not serious marksmen, I don't know who is.

FredB

Fred,

This was the model of Erma I was referring to. I saw one of these at ISS years ago and I always wondered how they shot.

Thanks,

Trident

[torontogunguy]

Would someone please tell me where I can find a FAS 603 (and manuals for the 602 & 603). I am getting very frustrated here. Been looking for almost a year now.

Anyone want to sell their FAS 603 to an upcoming young olympian? The future of our sport and a great kid? Andrew is 13 and an Air Cadet. He is a great student, a member of both the RCAC marching band and the school band and so on.

Your FAS 603 would be going to a great home to be sure.... but we are not asking you to donate it. Heavens NO! Andrew has been working hard and saving every penny as well as his allowance. Doing extra chores, babysitting, cutting lawns, washing cars and anything else he can do to make a buck honestly. He has busted his chops to buy this gun and now he cannot find one. Talk about despondent!

He has a great FAS 602 rimfire but that's not going to get him to the nationals or the olympics without the mate... the 603.

So, if you have any idea of where we might find one. PLEEEEZ. Email me right away. Dad here is going to make up the difference in cost of course and pick up the cost of coaching and all the traveling. Andrew is the future of our sport and you can rest assured if not for kids like Andrew and others, our sport would die off this generation. Let's give him a hand and locate a 603. Please help. We just need to know where and how much. That's all.

Thanks in advance.

Murray Lampert
Toronto Ontario
416-347-8746
MDL@Bell.Blackberry.Net