A Blackpowder Paradox

old, good http://www.midcoast.com/~pilkguns/bbs/

Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns

Post Reply
Matt

A Blackpowder Paradox

Post by Matt »

Being that I am ignorant of the NRA Black Powder Long Range Rules, I finished reading the latest report on the 2003 NRA National Black Powder Creedmoor Match (In Shooting Sports USA - January 2004) with a question: Why is it that some of the loads being used are a combination of black powder and smokeless powder? I refer to page 23 of the magazine - there it lists 3 of the top shooters 'gear'. Note that two of the three are using duplex loads using smokeless powder!
My question is (and maybe someone can help me understand the paradox here): Isn't a black powder match supposed to be that - A Black Powder match?
It seems to me that the title of the match should be changed if shooters can load duplex loads consisting of black powder and smokeless powder.
Help me out here someone, I'd sure like to hear what the reasoning is.
Matt
d_s_s_i-at-hotmail.com.48801.0
ed moore

Re: A Blackpowder Paradox

Post by ed moore »

i shoot North-South Skirmish Association (Civil War firearms in competiton) which is a strictly black powder organization (they even pull cartridge rounds to make sure there is no smokeless in there) and mixing the two can cause dangerous pressures which could cause a problem in an older firearm ..
many feel "a couple of grains of smokeless" makes the BP burn better, so it is allowed, i am guessing, because they feel modern firearms can safely handle the pressure (many of the people i have met who shoot cartridge, use duplex loads) ...
does it give an advantage? i know some very good shooters who shoot only BP and do very well, and if you look at the records from long ago (before smokeless), up to 1000 yards the scores still would stand up today ... of course if someone thinks it helps there is the mental advantage
the firearm needs to be cleaned well, as it is still BP, so that is not an advantage; and compressed BP shoots very well (i use magnum primers for LRBP and i have no problem with good ignition) .. when i shoot my old Ballard for N-SSA with 3F or LRBP 45-70 (2F) it's always just BP
i agree, i can see no reason to allow smokeless in a BP match .....
cannoneerfour-at-hotmail.com.48807.48801
Paul

Re: Duplex

Post by Paul »

I am really an ISSF shooter and only have general interest in muzzle loading. Quite a few friends at the local clubs shoot precision black powder and have asked me to test fire them as I shoot air pistol. Duplex loads are used by some in flint as Pyrodex is slower burning. Black powder is used in the pan for ignition and Pyrodex for the main charge. I also understand local rules require Pyrodex for indoor ranges but a small amount of black powder is OK for the pan ignition. As Pyrodex can be over-charged and is more corrosive than black powder, then I don’t think it has much else in its favour. I did perceive the shot ignition was faster with the duplex charge than just Pyrodex but I much prefer real black powder for the slightly faster ignition time and safety; it “feels” better to shoot was well. Muzzle loading really tests the follow through, especially flint! I would love to strap somebody else’s SCATT to a flint but can not see the sensor staying in place for long.

.48814.48801
Mark.

Re: Duplex

Post by Mark. »

I think the duplex loads being referred to in this thread are combinations of black powder and smokeless powder in "black powder cartridge rifle" loads.
The loads you speak of with BP and Pyrodex really aren't duplex per se in that it's not a mix of black and smokeless. Pyrodex is a black powder substitute, not a smokeless powder. Unfortunately, it can be a bit tougher to light than true black powder, hence the desire to use BP in the pan on a flintlock to ensure you make that "click-bang" sound, rather than the ominous "click..........pfffffffffut...BANG" that is the scary sound of poor ignition. Yes, talk about needing follow through! ;-)

Mark.
PS: There are other black powder substitutes on the market that work as well as or better than Pyrodex. I'm currently using Hodgdon's 777 (Triple Seven) powder and am mightely impressed with it. But, contrary to the claims of some dealers, it is not non-corrosive. It seems to be less corrosive than black powder, but it is still far, far more corrosive than smokeless powder.
.48829.48814
Post Reply