ISSF 300m in Australia

[j-team]

Was Just wondering if there is anyone shooting 300m in Australia and whether there is a National championship anymore?

And yes, I know it's not Olympic anymore, just though this was the best place to ask.

[mikeb1]

Unfortunately, not as far as I am aware.

Also interested though if anyone else knows of one.

[Martin H]

Hi all
Ask Warren Potent or David Wright on Facebook. They were involved with 300m shooting over there.
Cheers Martin

[Martin Catley]

Back in the eighties and nineties I shot in several 300 M matches in the South Pacific Regionals later called the Oceania. The Australian team, men and women was always very strong.
May be worth trying to contact the Australian NRA or the Brisbane shooting complex as we shot there once or twice.
A great sport , wish I was still shooting it.
Good luck.

[halohoppe]

In the longer ranges I feel like PRS, F-TR, or F-Open is more commonly shot. Lots of options, and custom builds for non-smallbore calibers.

[rgibson]

Unfortunate

[Tim S]

Unfortunate

Maybe just a cultural thing. Bisley-style TR, and before that SR, was the prevalent sling-supported full-bore discipline. 300m is a minority discipline in the UK too; AFAIK the only dedicated 300m range is at Bisley.

[rgibson]

Oh it’s a cultural thing alright. It takes a lot of work to sling up in an Olympic-style discipline. Most people don’t want to put in the work, don’t want to learn to use irons, it’s uncomfortable.

I was looking at some old pictures of shooting teams a couple years ago and found a picture of a school shooting team sitting on the front steps of their school with their rifles. They looked like either late middle school or early high school age. The picture was taken in the 1930s or 40s. I don’t remember the name of the school but it was in New York City.

When I said “unfortunate” I meant that it is really a shame that every youth out there doesn’t have that kind of opportunity anymore because of the gun-haters and the lazy.

If you teach a beginner to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission they will be able to drive everything. Teach them with an automatic transmission and that will probably be all they ever drive.

I look at rifles like I look at beds. I’m not going to lay in a hospital bed until I’m messed up or too ******* old.

DEATH BEFORE F-CLASS!!!!!

This message is dedicated to the memory of Stuart Paul Ramsey. He shot in a sling until the year before he died at 81.

[jhmartin]

DEATH BEFORE F-CLASS!!!!!

That's just silly - with the passion you espouse, I'm guessing if it was all you could do to shoot, you'd get down & peep thru a telescope at a target.

Dedicated to my Dad - Joel Martin who still stumbles around a Sporting Clays course with his O2 machine draped over his back at 89+.
He just has a good time being out w/ his sons and grandkids - and we feel blessed to have him w/ us.

[rgibson]

My Service Rifle still has irons sights. Long Range and Palma with iron sights. Both my Smallbore Rifles only have iron sights. In all fairness I do have to say that my work rifles wore glass.
Apples and oranges. I preferred glass when looking at people and irons when looking at paper. People aren’t round although some get close.

I’m getting old as well. Hope I can shoot irons for at least another decade.

[mikeb1]

Oh it’s a cultural thing alright. It takes a lot of work to sling up in an Olympic-style discipline. Most people don’t want to put in the work, don’t want to learn to use irons, it’s uncomfortable.

I agree it's cultural, but suspect the issue is more along the lines of ISSF disciplines being considered 'curios and relics'. I've shot across most of those mentioned disciplines (among others) and could find you a few guys who don't mind doing hard things.......what I won't be able to find you is too many guys who want to dress up in shooting suits etc.

Not trying to start a war about shooting suits etc, just making an observation.

[rgibson]

No “war” here. You are right on point with me. In my opinion it’s all about instant gratification. Everybody wants to be an operator and shoot a sniper rifle. I have a friend that was on our team and after a cardiac event and now having a form of leukemia he is pretty used up. He still loves to shoot although it is a tremendous burden. With a scoped rifle on a bipod he shoots steel at long range at a new range that caters pretty much just to that. He confided in me that the steel is the size of a car and everyone, young and old, is joyous to hit it….hit it anywhere. We will all be there at some point.

I don’t want to be there and won’t throw up my hands yet. I have 12 Juniors all training in 3P Air or SBR. We have to go out there and dig out these young folks and offer our sport to them. Some will go and some will stay, just like anything else. If there is no 3-P around don’t lament, start some. I know, it’s hard work, but it’s worth it.

There a lot of high school kids shooting Air out there. I hate to think how many give it up because there are no matches for them to shoot locally after they graduate.

[mikeb1]

Sure, totally agree that the whole instant gratification thing(and as you say, it's increasing) that reduces most of the rifle shooter pool. And this is going to be the case in pretty much any sport, it's just in shooting that we seem to complain about it more.....no one seems to whinge that there are some golfers more interested in whether they can have a beer while out on the course as opposed to how they get on the PGA circuit.

What my concern beyond this is the difficulty we have attracting people to the ISSF sports out of the pool of those who are happy to do hard things and want to compete. I shoot in some positional shoots(like slings only for some stages, not PRS style drop your gamechanger on 'insert prop here') from longer ranges and they are reasonably well attended, so there are some shooters out there....

The issue is that I can't get any of them excited about things run under ISSF rules. They see the shooting suits etc and just lose interest. I could probably drag a few of them together to shoot a 3p match(or at the least a postal) under 'outlaw' rules (no shooting clothes, may have to make a division for scopes etc) but that would die off pretty quickly if I had no higher events (no world cup etc due to outlaw rules) to entice people in with.

Just spitballing here for example. Let's say they change 300m standard 3p rules to exclude shooting clothing. Most of their rifles from the above events would qualify as standard or close to. I could now go to the aforementioned shooters and market the event as practice for their other disciplines with the possibility of forming national teams, dragging Target Rifle Australia in etc if we get enough people going. That's a much easier sell than trying to bring people into an event that they aren't really interested in shooting.....

As I said, I'm not trying to restart the war on shooting clothing. It just happened to be a convenient example.

I am 100% with you on not throwing your hands up. I will keep doing my best to get people shooting and keep them there. I am just calling out challenges as I see them so we can work on solving them

[rgibson]

Mike,
I understand your point and agree with what you are saying. It occurs to me that in your example you seem to be talking about adults who are already involved in a discipline where they only have to wear stuff which makes them comfortable and looks cool.
Also, in these disciplines usually termed “action” sports the athletes shoot for a short period of time and socialize for long periods of time. Not wrong, just a different style.

It would be difficult to convert those folks to our game where everybody shoots together for long periods of time and you have to dress “funny.”
Perhaps I wasn’t successful in getting my point across in the earlier posts. You have to get them and teach them Olympic-style shooting while they are young. A few adults will take up Service Rifle and Conventional Long Range with the coat and sling. But, we know we are bleeding competitors from those disciplines as well.

Just posing a hypothesis, maybe the adult shooters in the other disciplines see our disciplines as a step backward in cartridge (.22LR or unmodified .308) and/or the non- tacticool single shot target rifle…..and you have to shoot for hours at the dreaded old-fashioned round target.

Just like everything else real precision has been replaced by speed.

[rgibson]

Mike,
I have had considerable luck recruiting new Juniors from recent graduates in NRA Basic Rifle Courses and Boy Scout Troops. After shooting during a Scout Camp some are interested in continuing. Also, I have recruited Juniors by advertising our Junior Program throughout our local gun club members. The members responding usually confide that they wish their child to get some formal training.

[mikeb1]

Mike,
I understand your point and agree with what you are saying. It occurs to me that in your example you seem to be talking about adults who are already involved in a discipline where they only have to wear stuff which makes them comfortable and looks cool.
Also, in these disciplines usually termed “action” sports the athletes shoot for a short period of time and socialize for long periods of time. Not wrong, just a different style.

It would be difficult to convert those folks to our game where everybody shoots together for long periods of time and you have to dress “funny.”
Perhaps I wasn’t successful in getting my point across in the earlier posts. You have to get them and teach them Olympic-style shooting while they are young. A few adults will take up Service Rifle and Conventional Long Range with the coat and sling. But, we know we are bleeding competitors from those disciplines as well.

Just posing a hypothesis, maybe the adult shooters in the other disciplines see our disciplines as a step backward in cartridge (.22LR or unmodified .308) and/or the non- tacticool single shot target rifle…..and you have to shoot for hours at the dreaded old-fashioned round target.

Just like everything else real precision has been replaced by speed.

That's true, but the reason I go to that example is simply because I don't think we can get the required numbers from junior recruitment alone at the moment. Now, this may be simply because the hostile regulatory environment in Australia (air rifles are treated as firearms, so juniors have to get firearms licenses etc). A lot of the associations are working in this space to the point of almost saturation and it seems they are having some success (demographic of air rifle shooters has become much younger and we are getting juniors going to the Olympics) but still the numbers aren't there. We get more shooters at the monthly NRL22 style at the local range than they do at the TRA nationals......

I guess I just see the big competitive shooter pool that the 'action precision' disciplines have and instantly try to think how we can tap into that. Now it may be that we just can't do it. I won't accept that until I've at least kicked some ideas around about how to bridge that gap though. (and hell, there are examples of it happening. I'm living proof of that :p)

I'm not sure I quite I agree with that one. Most people I know seem to react with fascination to the rifles themselves. And NRL22-style is far more popular than it's centrefire counterpart. And re: the hours at the old fashioned target - they may have a point. With a 60 round qualifier and then 2 sets of finals it does drag a bit. But that has been discussed to death elsewhere so I will leave it alone.

[j-team]

Interesting where this thread has headed, given my original question was whether there ia a 300m Nationals in Australia.

My background is 25+ years of competitive ISSF pistol, but I've dabbled in rifle on and off. I started at my local long range club shooting a bit of F class. Well, I got bored with that within a year and now shoot target rifle (jacket, sling and irons. Palma or Bisley style or whatever you choose to call it), to me it's more of a challenge and more like actual marksmanship. Long story short, I ended up with a .223 target rifle to go with the .308 I mainly shoot, so I decided to shoot a bit of 300m with the .223 and quite liked it. Our 300m Nationals are tacked on (at the start) of our long range Nationals which is the Ballinger Belt held at Trentham. This year there were 6 entries in the ISSF 300m class, Also another 6 in the "open" which allows the non compliant rifles (eagle eyes etc), there were also a number who shot it as F class (not quite sure what motivates them!). It's the 60 shots prone I'm talking about, no one shoots 300m 3P in NZ. So, I was just curious to know what other 300m activity is around outside of wester Europe, it appeals to me as 60 shot matches are normal to me.

As for how to get new people to shoot the "traditional" styles of shooting, I'm not sure. I know that I would have great diffuculty getting either of my kids to put on a shooting jacket! I have long thought that getting rid of trousers and boots for 3P is a good place to start, I know that the defense will be "oh, but it prevents injury (back)". But that's only because the rifles have evolved to be heavy.

[efoleyjr]

Oh it’s a cultural thing alright. It takes a lot of work to sling up in an Olympic-style discipline. Most people don’t want to put in the work, don’t want to learn to use irons, it’s uncomfortable.

I was looking at some old pictures of shooting teams a couple years ago and found a picture of a school shooting team sitting on the front steps of their school with their rifles. They looked like either late middle school or early high school age. The picture was taken in the 1930s or 40s. I don’t remember the name of the school but it was in New York City.

When I said “unfortunate” I meant that it is really a shame that every youth out there doesn’t have that kind of opportunity anymore because of the gun-haters and the lazy.

If you teach a beginner to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission they will be able to drive everything. Teach them with an automatic transmission and that will probably be all they ever drive.

I look at rifles like I look at beds. I’m not going to lay in a hospital bed until I’m messed up or too ******* old.

DEATH BEFORE F-CLASS!!!!!

This message is dedicated to the memory of Stuart Paul Ramsey. He shot in a sling until the year before he died at 81.

"DEATH BEFORE F-CLASS!!!!!"

Love it

Ed

[Peter_Scant]

Was Just wondering if there is anyone shooting 300m in Australia and whether there is a National championship anymore?

And yes, I know it's not Olympic anymore, just though this was the best place to ask.

ISSF 300m falls under the NRAA in Australia while the rest of the rifle ISSF disciplines falls under TRA (Target Rifle Australia).

North Shore District Rifle Association shoot ISSF 300m

Belmont had a dedicated ISSF 300m range but it's no longer operational but there is some talk of adding in a 300m mound to the Duncan range.

[Haemish762]

Hi there, sadly there is little to no backing for 300m in Australia. I have been on the 300m competition since committee for the NRAA for a few years now and not had any luck getting any matches considered.

I had been in discussions with NZRA who were keen to resurrect the Trans Tasman 300m competition however as yet nothing has come to fruition. Similarly NRAGB have also expressed an interest.

Unfortunately Shooting Australia has set a virtually in achievable MQS to be selected as part of the world championships held every 4 years for non Olympic events. Sadly we could not field a team due to the i achievable scores for selection. So instead of having a team, whether they had MQS or not, we had no team so had no opportunity to compete or chance of a podium.
As they say, you have to be in it to win it!

If anyone is interested, please speak to the NRAA to see if they can get a trans Tasman March back up and running. It’s odd that our nearest neighbour has a 300m match and we don’t have an international match regularly.

I hope this answers some questions.

Please don’t let 300m completely die, it’s almost dead here.