TargetTalk

I am primarily a metallic silhouette shooter, but the fundamentals are the fundamentals (wow that was profound). Do any of you have a "cure" or drill that can help correct freezing on the trigger. I know that the first 6-8 seconds of a hold are for most the optimum time to get a shot off, however, I've picked up the nasty habit of delaying and trying to dress up a shot "to make it perfect." Intellectually, I know what I'm doing wrong, but am having a devil of a time trying to break the habit. My four pound two-stage trigger feels like a 20 pound trigger. Your help/comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tom

Do a search on "chicken finger".

Are you required to have a 4 pound trigger? That's super heavy for a target rifle. I'm pretty recoil sensitive and my crisp 1 pound trigger on my 308 tends to feel heavy sometimes. You're not exactly fighting a flinch but a 4 pound trigger isn't doing you any favors.

Tom,

Based on what I am hearing you are describing over holding. I do have some suggestions, as many target rifle shooters have this problem.

1. Visualize what a dead center shot feels and looks like. One of the things that helps me and has helped me with some shooters I coach is to have them visualize what this looks like. Train enough like this, and you will subconsciously recognize the shot, and things will happens automatically. For standing I like to focus on what a good shot "feels like;" this helps me to break the shot on target easier and not anticipate. If this doesn't work for you, you might also try focusing on one of your fundamentals while you are taking the shot, such as follow through or sight alignment. This keeps your mind focused on something other than the outcome.

2. Take up more pressure on the trigger at the beginning. I have my first stage pulled back before I even got on the target, that way I could break the shot sooner on target. I have to take up a decent amount of pressure while on the target, and then leave just enough to to take a good shot when I saw it. The ways of the rifle talks about using a slightly different trigger technique for shooting standing than prone and kneeling. I cannot encourage enough the value of dry firing.

3. Take a good shot as soon as you see it. Easier said then done, but why work harder for a shot then you have to? For me personally, my best shots in standing happen within about 3 seconds once I get on the bull. Some people need more time to settle; my hold isn't great and I need to take mine sooner. If you have time to think "that looks great, I should take this" you have missed your chance. I encourage my shooters to take as much time as they need to prep the shot, but to take a good shot as soon as they see it.

I hope this helps; I would love to see more feedback on this question given how common over holding is among target shooters. There are plenty of people of people more qualified then me to offer help on this topic.

Best,

-Zach

I'm 100% with Zach, I recognise every part of that.

Also the second stage should have almost no movement if adjusted for target. It should break like a thin glass rod should break. Any feeling of dragging through the second stage will delay the break and cause anxiety that will translate as heavy and delayed shot. If sear polishing is not possible at least have the trigger adjusted for shortest second stage and treated with something like dri-slide.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. Zach I believe that you accurately identified the problem, I try to dress the shot up so that it's "perfect (centered with no movement) and thus freezing on the trigger. I also think setting up the trigger the way Ten Meter Peter suggested would help. Thanks again, Tom

Have you tried counting to yourself and letting the shot go on say count three or four, if not start again. Works for some.

Would a release trigger be legal? They have them on some trap shotguns. Pulling the trigger sets it and to fire you release or take pressure off the trigger.

Chip

ChipEck wrote:Would a release trigger be legal? They have them on some trap shotguns. Pulling the trigger sets it and to fire you release or take pressure off the trigger.

Chip

ISSF does not allow "set triggers". Maybe other disciplines do.

No rifle shooting competitions I know of allow a release trigger. I've never even seen one for sale but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

ChipEck wrote:Would a release trigger be legal? They have them on some trap shotguns. Pulling the trigger sets it and to fire you release or take pressure off the trigger.

Chip

TenMetrePeter wrote: ISSF does not allow "set triggers". Maybe other disciplines do.

That's true for 10m AR and 300m Standard rifle, but set triggers are perfectly legal in all 50m rifle matches and 300m 3x40, 3x20 Sport Rifle and the 60 shot prone. I don't know of anyone still making a smallbore set trigger, bar maybe Tanner, but you can have one if you want.

Tim S wrote:

TenMetrePeter wrote: ISSF does not allow "set triggers". Maybe other disciplines do.

That's true for 10m AR and 300m Standard rifle, but set triggers are perfectly legal in all 50m rifle matches and 300m 3x40, 3x20 Sport Rifle and the 60 shot prone. I don't know of anyone still making a smallbore set trigger, bar maybe Tanner, but you can have one if you want.

I did see that the restriction only applied to 10m and 300m but not only was it not unambiguous, (set trigger was simply not mentioned in the 50m section) it also highlighted the mish mash of rule layout that I sincerely hope will be improved in the next revision.

TenMetrePeter wrote: I did see that the restriction only applied to 10m and 300m but not only was it not unambiguous, (set trigger was simply not mentioned in the 50m section)

Absolutely no confusion. Set triggers are only banned in the 300m Standard Rifle and Air Rifle section. There is no reason to believe that it also applies to 50m or the other 300m events. If it did then the ban would be in the "Standards for All Rifles" section 7.4.1

Set triggers were not however the original question; that was release triggers.

My immediate gut reaction was "banned", but there is no specific rule to back that up (that I can find).

Yes, they're banned for shotgun, but I cannot find any specific rule that applies to rifle. Anyone?

David Levene wrote:
Yes, they're banned for shotgun, but I cannot find any specific rule that applies to rifle. Anyone?

That is therfore ambiguous. One might naively assume that release triggers must therefore be allowed on 10m by default.
Its an organically developed mish mash which is why they need two more documents, one to interpret the rules and one for equipment controllers.

TenMetrePeter wrote:

David Levene wrote:
Yes, they're banned for shotgun, but I cannot find any specific rule that applies to rifle. Anyone?

That is therfore ambiguous. One might naively assume that release triggers must therefore be allowed on 10m by default.
Its an organically developed mish mash which is why they need two more documents, one to interpret the rules and one for equipment controllers.

Why ambiguous? They're banned for shotgun and nothing specific to say they are banned for rifle, but there is no link between the rifle and shotgun rules.

It would therefore be a Jury decision on either safety or "spirit and intent", if they wanted to ban them, as with any other piece of equipment.

As for equipment control documents:-

http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... n_2016.pdf
http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... n_2016.pdf
http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... n_2016.pdf

Zachs advice is what I *try* to do when standing. 'Set' triggers are allowed under NRA rules; 'release' triggers are banned by name.

Zach has good advice; when I'm in the zone my eyes pull the trigger. Something else to check is your grip pressure. A death grip will make the trigger seem heavier. Another trick I discovered in smallbore when that dang 3 oz trigger became too heavy to pull was to go to single stage with some takeup. You start the pull and do not know where it will break. For fun I shoot a 1903 A1 USMC sniper 22 reproduction offhand at silhouettes. (get lots of funny looks when it goes off). I knocked down the bump on the trigger to get a long even smooth pull; works great.

Mark

I use what my coach called "trust your hold."
I get the bull into the aperture, kinda stable.
Then start the pull.
I CONCENTRATE 100% on holding the sight picture.
While I am concentrating on holding the sight picture, the gun fires. This is within 6 seconds of putting the sight on the target.

Yes I am wobbling, and can see the sight moving. But rather than try to time the trigger pull based on how the bull is moving in the aperture, I try to hold the sight picture as best as I can, and the trigger will release during the hold. If I know when the trigger will release, that means I wasn't putting 100% of my concentration on the sight picture.

I dry fired a LOT until I could release the trigger without knowing it, the 'surprise' release.

Now the hard part.
If my hold is going to pot, I ABORT the shot.
However, aborting is the hardest thing for me to do. But I am learning. Because my hold just gets worse and worse, the longer I hold.

David Levene wrote:Yes, they're banned for shotgun, but I cannot find any specific rule that applies to rifle. Anyone?

That was my first reaction too... but I also can't find anything in the rules.

David Levene wrote:It would therefore be a Jury decision on either safety or "spirit and intent", if they wanted to ban them, as with any other piece of equipment.

I would have to go with the "spirit and intent" to rule them out, but they would be extremely hard to detect.
Since you only control the trigger weight on 300 standard rifles I bet you could never find one on the other rifle disciplines.

I also don't understand why set triggers are forbidden on rifles with no minimum trigger weight...

Hope this helps

To try and bring this back onto the topic you could try the Kurt Thune app, it'll help you to identify a good sight picture for a prompt release.