TargetTalk

shaky hands wrote:Who's Gerrit? Paying customs? So far everyone has been saying you don't pay any custom duties if you import an air gun into the US for personal use.

I think the only additional cost besides shipping and possibly a wire transfer fee is a brokerage fee that FocalX100 talks about, which apparently the carrier may or may not charge. I disagree with conradin. The total savings as opposed to purchasing in the US can be significant, about 30% less in my case.

shaky hands wrote:Who's Gerrit? Paying customs? So far everyone has been saying you don't pay any custom duties if you import an air gun into the US for personal use.

Gerrit Krale is presumably the son of the owner (or perhaps the owner; he's a young guy).

When the UPS guy says "you need to write a check to 'UPS Brokerage' for $x before I give you your package" you're faced with either spending weeks trying to convince the UPS machine that they shouldn't be charging you (and if they paid US Customs in advance then you've got a real uphill battle) or write the check and get your package.

shaky hands wrote:Who's Gerrit? Paying customs? So far everyone has been saying you don't pay any custom duties if you import an air gun into the US for personal use.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail ... RElsam0%3D

They do make a left hand version. When I created my account on their site I was on the Dutch side, they also have a English version, once I found that then I could see they do indeed make a version for us lefties. Now I have to come up with a way to fill the tanks. Hand air pump, buy scuba tank and get it filled or get my own pump and fill them myself.

Gerrit is the owner of the shop. Customs brokerage fees still needed to be paid even if tax is not levied. I know because my Walther was bought from him. It was a long process. If you buy it as an organization, you will be asked for tax ID for the customs, which he originally did accidentally. I have talked to the UPS customer service afterwards to make sure it is a personal use item. Also the UPS customer service also asked for an ATF form so I explained to them that it is an air gun, not a firearm. Still worth it because it is the last blue edition left.

TomAmlie wrote: When the UPS guy says "you need to write a check to 'UPS Brokerage' for $x before I give you your package" you're faced with either spending weeks trying to convince the UPS machine that they shouldn't be charging you (and if they paid US Customs in advance then you've got a real uphill battle) or write the check and get your package.

That was exactly what happened.

Air rifle is under 9304.00.20 of the harmonized tariff schedule. The reason why it is free and sometimes it is not is that it depends on the state. If it is not free then it is 3.9%. Air guns (9304.00.40), meanwhile, is free.

There is a lot of confusion in this thread from loose terms being used. After investigating, there is no such thing as "paying customs" if you import an air pistol (there is a custom duty for importing rifles, but who cares about rifles), pistols come under the category "Other" in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule, 9304.00.40. When you pay a custom brokerage fee you are paying the carrier to negotiate the release of your shipment by the customs, which is not the same as paying customs. With the total shipping/brokerage costs in the ballpark of $100 and an additional $35-40 for the wire transfer but sans 19% VAT on top of the overall lower European prices it is hard to see how you fail to get a much better deal than from a domestic dealer in the US.

TomAmlie wrote:When the UPS guy says "you need to write a check to 'UPS Brokerage' for $x before I give you your package" you're faced with either spending weeks trying to convince the UPS machine that they shouldn't be charging you (and if they paid US Customs in advance then you've got a real uphill battle) or write the check and get your package.

This is also confusing. Why shouldn't they be paid for getting your shipment through the customs? And if UPS delivers you a rifle and they already paid the 3.9% customs duties, why would you expect to receive the package before you reimburse them those 3.9% back? And if they delivered an air pistol, but paid 3.9% by mistake, and want you to reimburse them... well, I would like to hear if this indeed ever happened to someone who was importing an air pistol (as opposed to air rifle).

shaky hands wrote:This is also confusing.

It's unfortunate that you were confused by my comments. I'll restate it so they're (hopefully) clearer for you.

When the UPS driver says "I need a check for customs" it's not at all clear what it is for. If it's for a duty that has been erroneously charged on a duty-free item (hence my reference to "something they shouldn't be charging you"), then trying to correct that mistake will be difficult. If the erroneously charged duty has already been paid by UPS to US Customs, trying to get the US Government to disgorge a mistaken collection would be an uphill battle, and UPS is not likely to release the package until they've been made whole for the payment they mistakenly made for customs duty.

Hopefully this clarification will enable you to correct your erroneous and insulting assumption that I would wish to avoid paying for an import duty which was correctly applied, or pay for charges correctly assessed. I try to be clear in my writing but I guess I'm not always successful.

TomAmlie wrote:If the erroneously charged duty has already been paid by UPS to US Customs, trying to get the US Government to disgorge a mistaken collection would be an uphill battle, and UPS is not likely to release the package until they've been made whole for the payment they mistakenly made for customs duty.

And did it ever happen that UPS mistakenly paid custom duties for an imported air pistol?

Ok, in my case what fees, taxes other then the price of the air pistol and shipping will I be expected to pay? There isn't a USA dealer who handles this air pistol.

shaky hands wrote:

TomAmlie wrote:If the erroneously charged duty has already been paid by UPS to US Customs, trying to get the US Government to disgorge a mistaken collection would be an uphill battle, and UPS is not likely to release the package until they've been made whole for the payment they mistakenly made for customs duty.

And did it ever happen that UPS mistakenly paid custom duties for an imported air pistol?

I had the US Postal service squeeze a duty out of me on an imported air pistol back when DHL still shipped them.

The debate over whether UPS ever makes mistakes - I think it's pretty safe to assume they do - doesn't negate the fact that you were apparently unable to understand what I was really pretty clear in stating.

Recently I ordered an MGH1 Hybrid and a couple other items from Krale. UPS delivered it to my door in 3 days from shipment in fine shape. It was left at my door, no signature req'd. About a week later I received an invoice from UPS for $7.85. There was a $7 brokerage charge and a $0.85 customs charge. The customs charge was not on the pistol but the Knobloch centering device for my glasses. I also ordered 500 targets which were not charged any customs fee.

wasatch wrote:Recently I ordered an MGH1 Hybrid and a couple other items from Krale. UPS delivered it to my door in 3 days from shipment in fine shape. It was left at my door, no signature req'd. About a week later I received an invoice from UPS for $7.85. There was a $7 brokerage charge and a $0.85 customs charge. The customs charge was not on the pistol but the Knobloch centering device for my glasses. I also ordered 500 targets which were not charged any customs fee.

Hmmm; I, too, ordered an MGH1, and wrote a check to the UPS driver for about $65 (maybe $60; I'd have to check my checkbook). Couldn't possible be an erroneous import duty, since we know UPS wouldn't make a mistake, right?

TomAmlie wrote:The debate over whether UPS ever makes mistakes - I think it's pretty safe to assume they do - doesn't negate the fact that you were apparently unable to understand what I was really pretty clear in stating.

Chalk it up to the general shortcomings of a human race. The important thing is whether such screw-ups happen and how to minimize their likelihood. To my understanding UPS asks for the code (9304.00.40 for air pistols) from the Harmonized Tariff Schedule. If that information is provided and written on the shipping label, it would be hard for UPS to argue afterwards that they thought the parcel contained something else. But if some info is missing, they could plausibly claim not being able to tell air pistol from air rifle through the cardboard.

When ordering should we make sure to request that Krale puts that code on the shopping label just in case? I'm thinking of making an order.

There is certainly space for the code on the UPS invoice form
https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipp ... voice.html
and the shipper is encouraged to list the code, though it is not mandatory. I would not only ask the seller to do so, but also contact UPS by phone (once the shipping label is generated) and tell them the same thing (and save the personal # of the agent I spoke with).

shaky hands wrote:

TomAmlie wrote:If the erroneously charged duty has already been paid by UPS to US Customs, trying to get the US Government to disgorge a mistaken collection would be an uphill battle, and UPS is not likely to release the package until they've been made whole for the payment they mistakenly made for customs duty.

And did it ever happen that UPS mistakenly paid custom duties for an imported air pistol?

It has mistakenly paid the custom for my air rifle. But to not pay the check, it may take forever to get the rifle, have the rifle stuck in UPS storage (which charges storage fees), etc etc. Same thing can happen to pistol.

Monsterpost wrote:Ok, in my case what fees, taxes other then the price of the air pistol and shipping will I be expected to pay? There isn't a USA dealer who handles this air pistol.

Don't forget state taxes. Whether you pay customs or not, you are still liable for state sales tax.

conradin wrote:Don't forget state taxes. Whether you pay customs or not, you are still liable for state sales tax.

That's right. While the seller who has no physical presence in your state is not required to collect state sales tax, the buyer is still obligated to report the purchase and pay sales tax on it to his/her state's tax commission. But since TomAmlie was so insulted by a mere thought of him not paying custom duties, I dare not to ask if he remembered to pay PA sales tax on the guns he received from overseas.

conradin wrote:Don't forget state taxes. Whether you pay customs or not, you are still liable for state sales tax.

Not all states (try to) impose sales taxes on online purchases and states that do not all purchases are subject to sales taxes. Some states don't have sales taxes. And of all the taxes imposed outside of customary retail transactions (store purchases and now some online retailers) very few taxes are paid. If anyone pays taxes on every legally obligated transaction they're in an extreme minority, about the same number of people that always follow speed limits.