I was having a discussion with my dad about this today.
I have trained with wobble blocks before, and for whatever reason, we've never been in agreement on this.
My center of balance is very far back. It is how I walk, stand, and go about life in general. I'm not particularly sure why, but it is this way, has always been this way, and is how I am comfortable.
My dad said that it doesn't matter where my natural center of balance is, the blocks need to be even on the floor. He said that the gun should balance me out, but my reasoning was that the gun would balance me out to where I naturally balance myself in my position.
Who would be correct here?
Also, I am struggling with the blocks sliding. They are smooth wood on carpet and spread apart and turn out when I'm in position.
My dad says that the purpose of wobble blocks is instability and that the sliding and turning of the blocks helps build position.
Who would be correct in this case?
Training on wobble blocks
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Those blocks don't work as they force you in a balance point which is most of the time not yours. You are counter-productive; instead of improving your balance you are changing your balancepoint furthervaway from tou're natural pointof balance. It's just like changing your triggeringtechnique instead of perfecting you're current technique.
If you want to train balance for shooting; shoot a lot of shots with constant focus on balance. Use specific exercises for balance like slackline.
If you want to train balance for shooting; shoot a lot of shots with constant focus on balance. Use specific exercises for balance like slackline.
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Thedrifter
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Balance training in position is done to become better at balancing that position (not a position you're not actually using while shooting). Balance training outside of a shooting position is another matter and can be done by using various methods. So when the blocks are sliding, training focus has shifted to being something else and is of no use here.
One way of dealing with this is to flip the blocks upside down (flat end facing the floor), place them on a thin carpet and place a flat board on top. You can now stand on the board in your preferred position without sliding around. You will also be able to set up your center of gravity better to coincide with your balance point.
One way of dealing with this is to flip the blocks upside down (flat end facing the floor), place them on a thin carpet and place a flat board on top. You can now stand on the board in your preferred position without sliding around. You will also be able to set up your center of gravity better to coincide with your balance point.
Google it or look here; http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlackliningThedrifter wrote:not trying to thread jack but what is slackline?
I don't want to get to far into the weeds with this, but the motor learning literature is very clear: training on wobble blocks will not help you, and in may in fact degrade your skill.
I am not interested in an argument, but if you want a detailed discussion of this, feel free to email me.
Best,
Mike
I am not interested in an argument, but if you want a detailed discussion of this, feel free to email me.
Best,
Mike
There are a lot of myths, superstitions and rituals around athletics. I've been around a lot of high level athletics for a couple of dozen years and learned that most people are emotionally invested in their theories. Life is too short to be banging heads, but if I can save some someone a lot of time, read up on motor learning, specifically the encoding principle, specificity and myelination and skill development. Most of things assumed to transfer simply do not.
If you want at least me to understand where you're going, you have to give out more information. Any references or specific books you're thinking of?
If you're talking about forming nerve patterns to facilitate a specific movement, then that will be highly specific to the situation (like you mentioned). How does this go together with balance training outside of position or to not reduce stability inside position (that's not a transfer situation, it's as close to the real task as you can get)?
Balance is a combination of visual input, proprioception, the vestibular system and foot pressure. All these systems can become better with training but are also not of equal importance in all activities. Standing shooting relies less on vision (is blocked by blinds, diopter and focus on the target) and more on the internal cues. The better the shooter, the smaller the range is, as shown in the few studies made on the topic, which is harder to achieve with a higher reliance on vision. So a combination of these, but with focus on the internal systems, is of interest during training (in my mind).
But if I'm wrong, could you please give me some specific sources to look at?
If you're talking about forming nerve patterns to facilitate a specific movement, then that will be highly specific to the situation (like you mentioned). How does this go together with balance training outside of position or to not reduce stability inside position (that's not a transfer situation, it's as close to the real task as you can get)?
Balance is a combination of visual input, proprioception, the vestibular system and foot pressure. All these systems can become better with training but are also not of equal importance in all activities. Standing shooting relies less on vision (is blocked by blinds, diopter and focus on the target) and more on the internal cues. The better the shooter, the smaller the range is, as shown in the few studies made on the topic, which is harder to achieve with a higher reliance on vision. So a combination of these, but with focus on the internal systems, is of interest during training (in my mind).
But if I'm wrong, could you please give me some specific sources to look at?
The short answer is that there is no general balance trait that can be trained that will then improve specific balance skills. Learning to balance a stick on your nose will not help you spin a basketball on your finger. A lifetime of skateboarding will leave you just as raw when you learn to surf as having never skateboarded.
What is termed proprioception is a combination of several things. Of specific interest is the golgi tendon organ, spindles and the stretch reflex. What is important to realize is that these are reflex arc responses. They go to the spinal chord, but not the brain. As such, they are not really trainable. Nor is there a need to train them, as they come with your body as standard equipment. The rest of proprioception is specific skill responses to the stimulus that you may be conscious of, such as some visual cues, or unconsiouse of such as the stretch reflex
Your body will only aquire, retain and display high levels of skill on an as need basis. I am sure you are familiar with a degradation of skill after even a short term practice layoff. The best way to practice is to make your training as specific as possible.
The classic text on specificity is Schmitt. A nice pop article on mylination and skill development was written in the ny times several years ago and titled, i believe, "how to grow a super athlete"
Save time and practice specifically.
What is termed proprioception is a combination of several things. Of specific interest is the golgi tendon organ, spindles and the stretch reflex. What is important to realize is that these are reflex arc responses. They go to the spinal chord, but not the brain. As such, they are not really trainable. Nor is there a need to train them, as they come with your body as standard equipment. The rest of proprioception is specific skill responses to the stimulus that you may be conscious of, such as some visual cues, or unconsiouse of such as the stretch reflex
Your body will only aquire, retain and display high levels of skill on an as need basis. I am sure you are familiar with a degradation of skill after even a short term practice layoff. The best way to practice is to make your training as specific as possible.
The classic text on specificity is Schmitt. A nice pop article on mylination and skill development was written in the ny times several years ago and titled, i believe, "how to grow a super athlete"
Save time and practice specifically.
Last edited by mbradley on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Agreed, but how do you put that together with slackline walking and not training on wobble blocks to increase stability in the specific situation that is standing shooting?
Interesting read, though I really wished he'd left out the part with Anders Ericsson. He is in parts too one-sided, especially the 10 000-hour hypothesis has weak supporting evidence.
Btw, the stretch reflex is also the same reason to why stretching of the calf muscle acutely decreases balance.
Interesting read, though I really wished he'd left out the part with Anders Ericsson. He is in parts too one-sided, especially the 10 000-hour hypothesis has weak supporting evidence.
Btw, the stretch reflex is also the same reason to why stretching of the calf muscle acutely decreases balance.
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redschietti
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peashooter
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Trying to understand this very interesting topic. Does this mean that drills such as shooting without jacket,pants,boots are a waste of time ? Is the only worthwhile training to perform the complete and exact action? I did a lot of drills in years of competitive swimming - maybe we were all fooling ourselves in thinking it helped?
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Cousin Jack
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Hmmm..... perhaps a bit of a stretch, but I've read that David Tubb will practice off-season with a scoped air rifle, without a jacket, and believes it helps him immensely with his primary discipline, iron-sighted, high-power rifle wearing a heavy NRA coat. This would argue against specificity in training.....just saying....no axe to grind either way.....
http://www.zediker.com/articles/air_rifle_one.pdf
http://www.zediker.com/articles/air_rifle_one.pdf
Appeal to authority is certainly one form of argument, and with the success that David Tubb has achieved, it would most likely be an unwise use of time to argue otherwise. Instead, I will present this information for those who contacted me and those interested is saving time and maximizing their practice sessions.
The link below is titled "Motor Learning Principles and the Superiority of Whole Training in Volleyball." Do not get lost in the weeds with the "Volleyball" word. The authors are only using this as vehicle to explain evidenced based motor learning principles. I will copy and paste the parts of this article that I believe are the most important. For those who requested evidence and literature, there are over 60 citations at the end of this article that are the state of the art.
http://www.goldmedalsquared.com/documen ... aining.pdf
The link below is titled "Motor Learning Principles and the Superiority of Whole Training in Volleyball." Do not get lost in the weeds with the "Volleyball" word. The authors are only using this as vehicle to explain evidenced based motor learning principles. I will copy and paste the parts of this article that I believe are the most important. For those who requested evidence and literature, there are over 60 citations at the end of this article that are the state of the art.
http://www.goldmedalsquared.com/documen ... aining.pdf