TargetTalk

sbrmike · Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 145 Location: Potter County, PA

The USA has the 2d Amendment to the US Constitution that guarantees our God given right to bear arms. The key here is the government does not give us the right, God did; our 2d Amendment merely guarantees it.

For the most part nationwide we can go in a store and buy a long gun or two or three or five or whatever number over the counter and walk out with it/them. Many states and locales can also do the same with handguns. We don't have to belong to a club and participate in organized competitions to "justify" a need. The only training requirements are some counties in some states require training for concealed carry permits.

I would not like to live in a place where I had to put up with nonsensical requirements to buy a gun; or tyrannical storage requirements.

sbrmike · Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 145 Location: Potter County, PA

There are various classes of weapons in the USA that we have failed to address. So far in the discussion we have only discussed Title I weapons which are long guns - rifles and shotguns, and handguns.

Title II weapons while legal to own are highly regulated, Registered and taxed. The tax is a one time tax that is generally $200 for the tax stamp for machineguns (which to be transferrable and legal to own must be manufactured before 1986), short barreled rifles or short barreled shotguns.

There are also weapons classified as Destructive Devices,such as cannons, mortars, grenades etc. Some of these are flatout outawed and some not; I am not up on the Title II stuff other than the MG's, SBR's or SBS's.

There are is also a category as AOW, All Other Weapons, in Title II. These are taxed at like $5.00 or some other small amount; my memory fails me. AOW's are typically stockless guns, i.e. Briefcase guns, cane guns etc., novelty type guns.

I know that Canada for the most part makes no or little distinction between classes of weapons, barrel lengths etc. I have heard Canadians in years past, when they were "free-er" to own guns comment on all of our nit pic specificatons on firearm classifications.

Misny · Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 757 Location: Indiana

orionshooter · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:48 am Post subject:

God given? What happens if you don't believe in God? Does that lack of belief preclude ownership of firearms? Does it curtail freedom of speech or peaceable assembly? Jefferson referred to inalienable rights endowed by our "Creator"....... not "God.". As for me, my creators were my mom and dad.

What seems obvious from James' post is that once you are accustomed to living in a system such as the one in place in Australia, it becomes the acceptable norm. Ergo, you get the government you "deserve."

The right to own a gun should not be contingent on a belief in God, membership in some club, or an intent to use that gun solely for competition. None of these restrictions are legitimate prerequisities for the safe, ethical and perfectly legal enjoyment of firearms....well at least not in the U.S.A.

j-team · Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 645 Location: New Zealand

Richard H · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2639 Location: Guelph, Ontario

The other thing is the consequences for making a little administration error, I know in Canada these are all criminal offenses under the Criminal Code, so screw up or miss a deadline or expiry and you can find your self in criminal court with murders and rapists get convicted you can do time which usually would mean losing your job having a criminal record which limits your future. Now that you have a criminal record you can no longer own any firearms either.

Many try to compare fun registration and licensing to automobile registration and licensing which are regulator offenses where you pay a small fine and walk away without any criminal record. They definitely are two different animals.

Plus I don't know the last time the swat team smashed into a house because your vehicle or dog license had expired.

FredB · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: **Yes!**

peterz · Joined: 05 Dec 2009 Posts: 353 Location: Great Falls, VA

I gather that in Germany when you do get a firearms permit they ask you if you would use the gun in self-defense to save your life. The correct and only acceptable answer is "no." Because if you stored the gun properly it would take you so long to get to it and get it loaded that you had time to call the Polizei! So there would be no urgent need to use lethal force to defend yourself.

-pz

As Shakespeare might have said:

Glendower:I can call police from the vasty deep"

Hotspur:"Why, so can I or so can any man. But will they come when you do call for them?"

Freely adapted from Henry IV, Part I

mika · Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 65

yana · Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 215 Location: netherlands

I kinda agree with James; with setting up time limits etc, like our min 1 yr limit, ánd declaration of behaviour to begin with, you can filter out quite some people you dont wánt on a gunclub.

Its same here reg self defense; if you use yr legal guns for that, you'll loose yr licence. Period.

Costs here are: each yr $5, and $5 for each new subscription (max of 5 guns). Ammo and gunclub costs are FAR more expensive! Allthough Holland dóest have a gunhistory, we stíll have 10 thousands sport shooters with FA.

robinhoods · Joined: 08 Feb 2010 Posts: 98 Location: brooklyn ny

Well in NY where I live-takes about 10 months to get a permit.
you go put money down on the gun and fill out the paperwork and submit it.
You have to be fingerprinted and a national check and if there is anything on you like disturbing the peace ot any mis. then you won't get it. you have to have references-no police family members or any family member that holds office can vouch for you.
It had to be signed by two detectives before but I don't know about now.
even at a gun show you have to be checked.
I'm older than most here and I remember what freedom was.
They used to call it the land of the free but the politicians have taken that freedom from us. A lot of us fought for it and some of our friends died for it but they take it from us without recourse because we don't stand together and vote them out and say no-you are not going to do this anymore. What a shame.

trevorw · Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 43 Location: Australia

The legislation has changed considerably in the last 20 years due in part to events beyond the control of your average shooter.

You used to be able join a club wait 3 months apply for license buy gun get temporary permit take gun in to police station to be registered end of story.

Now you have to join a club, join a national shooting body, belong to both for a least six months before applying for your license then wait another 40-90 days to get your license.

So far even before I have my gun I had to pay

$80 for membership to National body
$170 for club membership
$200 for use of club gun during waiting period
$160 to apply for license
$180 for safes to store gun
$20 for license card

Now if I had to fork out $800 odd dollars in one hit I wouldn't have bothered taking up the sport again fortunately this cost has been spread over 8 months

No if I wasn't so determined and able to afford it the whole process would have put me off.

I bet it does put a lot of honest people off taking up the sport of pistol shooting.

I'm all for laws but there should be a resonable balance between too lax and too strict and costly

JamesH · Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 452 Location: Australia

Apart from table tennis there aren't many sports where the entry cost is below $1,000, most are a lot higher.

You won't get a half decent mountain bike and all the gear for under $1k, set of golf clubs, membership etc etc.

Its a spurious argument.

william · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 367 Location: New Hampshire, USA

James, don't try to make sense of it any more. Once the Second Amendment comes into the conversation it's game over.

It's a pity Canada doesn't have a swell constitution like ours, so you can have a swell homicide rate like ours. Pity. I guess that's the price one pays for democracy. Maybe someday Canada can have a swell democracy like ours, too. ;-)

mika · Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 65

Richard H · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2639 Location: Guelph, Ontario

Yes Mika and it's all done in the name of common sense and safety. The lobbiest get in there and see it as a cash cow for their clients, then something simple just keeps growing like a cancer and each additional item is just "common sense".

trevorw · Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 43 Location: Australia

Guest · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject:

It seems that your shooting club charges 25% of your cost for 'gun hire' - not a positive move if you want to attract members to the sport

michal006 · Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 3

This place is they reserve spots at the bar for people that go outside and smoke. And most of these patriots are not even eating at the bar!! I suggest they only reserve places at the bar to those guest eating at the bar!!!!! As far as the price for food/ drinks, this place is somewhat affordable.

Houston Criminal Attorney