Good Afternoon Guys and Gals!
I have been shooting 22 bullseye for a little longer then I care to admit.
Currently own a IZH 35M that is back to the gunsmith getting a new ejector fabricated. There is quite a bit of wear on the pistol and I am considering a replacement. EAA in Florida no longer carries replacement parts.
Anyways, cruising the Larry's guns website, there is the following Pardini's 22 pistols:
Pardini SP 22 lr $1,846.00
Pardini SP "Rapid Fire" 22 lr $2,129.00
Pardini SP1 Electronic $2,258.00
Pardini SP1 Electronic "Rapid Fire" $2,541.00
I have shot pardini SP 22 lr before so I am familiar with these pistols but does anybody know what the difference between a standard and "Rapid Fire" pistol is and can anybody provide comments on the electronic trigger.
Thank you
Cranky
New Pardini 22's at Larry's Guns in Maine
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
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crankythunder
- Posts: 252
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- Location: The ugly side of Hell, Michigan
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The RF version is #! not as accurate as the standard SP. It has a different weighting system than the SP. The chambering is a wee bit sloppier for ease of chambering and ejection.They have made a few comrpmises for the RF event, which makes it a little less "accurate" for ease of operation. If you are going to shoot Bullseye you really want the Standard SP for more inherent accuracy. Just as a for instance, look at the size of the Internat. RF Target compare to the scoring rings on a Slow Fire Target, Rapid and Timed as well. The E trigger has issues and you may want to have an extra module around when they run sour and they do run sour. My friend , do the math! ....."Doc"
european rimfire
Check out the Benelli's and others as they are a lot cheaper. I have a cheaper model 95 .22 and a more expensive model 90 .32 and I like the trigger on the cheaper 95 better. It was fairly simple to shine up and adjust. It might matter more just which one feels best to you.
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crankythunder
- Posts: 252
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- Location: The ugly side of Hell, Michigan
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Dear Bob:
Thank you very much, I had no idea that the rapid fire might not be accurate enough for bullseye or not as accurate as the standard version. I also noticed that one of the teams that I shoot against uses pardini's amost exclusivly on the pardini usa website. going to email those guys and see what they say.
I am always amazed at how helpful the competitors I compete with shoulder to shoulder are so helpful with sugesstions and advice. Thank you all!
Regards,
Cranky
Thank you very much, I had no idea that the rapid fire might not be accurate enough for bullseye or not as accurate as the standard version. I also noticed that one of the teams that I shoot against uses pardini's amost exclusivly on the pardini usa website. going to email those guys and see what they say.
I am always amazed at how helpful the competitors I compete with shoulder to shoulder are so helpful with sugesstions and advice. Thank you all!
Regards,
Cranky
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crankythunder
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:57 pm
- Location: The ugly side of Hell, Michigan
- Contact:
Dear Oldcaster:
Thank you very much although I have already tried out a couple of benelli's. Very very nice guns! I am sure that I would be happy with a benelli and will evaluate them closely if the IZH is wore out.
Hope you have a great day and as I said before, I am always amazed at how generous my fellow competitors are with suggestions and advice.
Regards,
Cranky
Thank you very much although I have already tried out a couple of benelli's. Very very nice guns! I am sure that I would be happy with a benelli and will evaluate them closely if the IZH is wore out.
Hope you have a great day and as I said before, I am always amazed at how generous my fellow competitors are with suggestions and advice.
Regards,
Cranky
benneli cleaning
Lammy 1000,
I wouldn't let the cleaning hold me back because with modern spray cleaners with tubes it wouldn't be any problem. You can also put just the gun only in mineral spirits and blow off with air. I don't shoot mine with optics but have before and what I don't like about it is the small air pistol size grooves that the rings fit on. Also I feel like the scope has to be mounted fairly high because the magazine is the ejector and it doesn't always sit in the same place and magazines vary so it is possible to have empties bounce off the scope and back in the gun for an alibi I'm not familar with all the Euro tyoe guns but some others do this also. There are a lot of things to think about when about to spend 1-2 thousand on a gun; like what am I willing to put up with for a grand less or will paying the extra grand actually make me a K happier. Do everything you can to get to hold all the guns you are thinking of buying in your hand to see if the feel is correct. The rake angle varies quite a bit and everyone likes a different amount while some people actually get wrist problems with too much angle.
I wouldn't let the cleaning hold me back because with modern spray cleaners with tubes it wouldn't be any problem. You can also put just the gun only in mineral spirits and blow off with air. I don't shoot mine with optics but have before and what I don't like about it is the small air pistol size grooves that the rings fit on. Also I feel like the scope has to be mounted fairly high because the magazine is the ejector and it doesn't always sit in the same place and magazines vary so it is possible to have empties bounce off the scope and back in the gun for an alibi I'm not familar with all the Euro tyoe guns but some others do this also. There are a lot of things to think about when about to spend 1-2 thousand on a gun; like what am I willing to put up with for a grand less or will paying the extra grand actually make me a K happier. Do everything you can to get to hold all the guns you are thinking of buying in your hand to see if the feel is correct. The rake angle varies quite a bit and everyone likes a different amount while some people actually get wrist problems with too much angle.
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PardiniUSA
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:41 pm
- Location: Tampa, FL
- Contact:
Pardini Sport & Rapid Fire Pistol * Electronic vs Mechan
Pardini Sport & Rapid Fire Pistol * Electronic vs Mechanical
Hello Cranky and everybody else!
I will try to keep the information as neutral as possible and stay away of advertizing :)
With the two major modifications Sport Pistol (SP) and Rapid Fire Pistol (RF) Pardini is addressing the specifics of both events and try to bring the best of the engineering, innovations and research to help the athletes on their path to success. Still the major work is left for you - to train a lot - but some help from outside is always welcome, isn't it? :)
The difference between Sport (SP) and Rapid Fire Pistol (RF) are as follow:
1. In the RF the active counterweight compensator has tungsten (carbide) weights. They are double the weight of the steel ones that are in the SP. Each one of the six weights is approximately 35 grams compare the 17 grams for the steel. The goal is to bring more weight to the front and improve the effectiveness of compensating the recoil. As a result the balance is more to the front (with all six tungsten you are adding 100 grams), the recoil is less and you have faster recovery after the shot. The negatives - you need to train more and build stronger grip and muscle strength.
2. The barrel is different. This does not make it less accurate. The transition from the chamber to the rifling part of the barrel is elongated approximately 10 mm. It has taper shape with the largest diameter close to the chamber and smooth transition to the standard diameter for .22LR barrel. The goal is to reduce the velocity of the bullet and bring it close to the ISSF limit of no less than 250 m/sec. (821 ft/sec) This additionally reduces the recoil and make the recovery easier.
3. There is a different bolt . The RF bolt is much lighter. As a result it cycles faster. In addition since the mass is smaller the energy of the bolt moving backwards and hitting the frame is less. Both bolts - SP and RF - have piston like shock absorber in the back next t the firing pin. If you are using any of the new bolts you do not need the green rubber shock absorber that was in the back of the frame in the older versions.
4. The RF hammer is modified so it has less mass. The idea is the same as with the bolt - faster cycling.
5. The front sight of the Rapid Fire pistol is 7 mm high compare to the 8 mm for the Sport Pistol. This is done to keep the diapason of correction ability same. Rapid fire you aim center mass while for the Precision stage of the Sport Pistol you aim 6 o'clock. The front sights are interchangeable and you can choose different heights and widths.
Is there a difference in the accuracy of SP and RF?
We did test both pistols from a rest and the grouping is about 3/4 inch with Eley Tenex with both guns. Of course this is the practice but there is a theoretical part as well. Because of the lowered velocity of the bullet in the RF pistol some people suggest that this give possibility for errors and increasing the group size. The reason is that supposedly you brake the shot in the perfect moment and in any given time prior or after this moment the shot will not be perfect. It is correct that we build a coordination so that we have a shot as close as possible to the perfect moment but in anyone who is shooting knows that there is always an area where the sighting point fluctuates while we are shooting so this will be an acceptable error. This is why with exactly the same reasoning one can say that if there was imperfection in the moment of the shot, the delay will give you a chance to recover the error. In both cases we are talking got human errors not for problems with the pistols. When you are making your selection chose a model that will fit better for the events you are shooting.
The next most often asked question is How to chose between Electronic and Mechanical trigger.
First I have to say that this is absolutely legal for use in international and/or NRA pistol events. This is a modification that is added between the trigger disconnector and the sear. Here is a simple explanation how it works: When you pull the trigger it moves the disconnector. The disconnector presses some kind of a switch. The switch is activating an electronic board that discharge a capacitor and as a result of the electric current electromagnet is "shooting" a permanent magnet rod (located in the center of the solenoid of the electromagnet). The rod hits the sear and the sear release the hammer.
What are some pros?
1. Because there is no pressure from the main spring (hammer spring) directly related to the trigger shoe it is more easy to build a trigger mechanism that is smooth and consistent.
2. It gives a lot of possibilities for easy and precise correction of the trigger.
3. The lock time is sorter. Big advantage for Rapid Fire Pistol and in some cases in Free pistol. (However the world record in Free Pistol was set by Alexander Melentiev in 1980 with mechanical trigger)
4. You can dry-fire and there is o need to re-cock the pistol to actually be able to make a "dry shot" . This is very useful if you are training Rapid Fire Pistol event.
5. The trigger can have extremely short reset. Again - very big advantage for Rapid fire.
And the cons:
1. It is expensive.
2. It is very precise mechanism. It is relatively easy to be abused and be broken.
3. It is picky and you will have to clean your gun more often.
4. Probably the worst - you will have to read the owner's manual and follow it :)
So I thing this gives you some answers. If this is not enough you can vist our website www.PardiniGuns.com you can email us at info@pardiniguns.com or call me at 1.813.748 3378
Also you can visit our store www.PardiniGuns.com/store and maybe we have better prices :)
Pardini USA LLCis the importer of all Pardini pistols, parts for them and we provide full service. We do not offer any other brand but with the Pardini we can help :)
When you chose your pistol make your selection based on the events you are planning to compete. Do not over pay for RF or Electronic pistol if you do not need the advantages that will come with them. Don't get me wrong, I will gladly take your money for Rapid Fire pistol with Electronic trigger but keep in mind that the pistol is the cheap part of the deal and safe money for the ammunition :) Check if the company is still manufacturing pistols and provides support. It is fact that our guns are not cheap but keep in mind that there is a reason why Pardini is dominating the International Rapid Fire Pistol Event. Seventy percent of the Rapid Fire Pistol shooters are using Pardini and usually 5 out of 6 finalists at the International Competitions are shooting our pistols. Nine out of the top 10 in the World Ranking List for Rapid Fire pistol and 34 out of the top 40 are using Pardini. The Americans Keith Sanderson (current Olympic Record Holder in Rapid Fire, 5 World Cup medals), Emil Milev (Olympic Silver medal, 14 World Cup medals), Nick Mowrer, John Ennis, Brad Balsley, Sean Ragay, Brenda Silva, Teresa Meyer, Elizabeth Callahan and others are competing with Pardini pistols. World class legends as Ralf Schumann from Germany (5 Olympic medals, 3 times Olympic Champion, 2 times World Champion, 13 times World Cup Final Winner, 55 medals from World Cups and 49 of them Gold), Maria Grozdeva from Bulgaria (5 Olympic medals, 2 times Olympic Champion, 2 times World Champion, 15 Gold medals from World Cups )
God luck and let me know if I can help with something else.
Vladimir Chichkov
Pardini USA LLC
www.PardiniGuns.com
www.PardiniGuns.com/store
info@pardiniguns.com
1.813.748 3378
Hello Cranky and everybody else!
I will try to keep the information as neutral as possible and stay away of advertizing :)
With the two major modifications Sport Pistol (SP) and Rapid Fire Pistol (RF) Pardini is addressing the specifics of both events and try to bring the best of the engineering, innovations and research to help the athletes on their path to success. Still the major work is left for you - to train a lot - but some help from outside is always welcome, isn't it? :)
The difference between Sport (SP) and Rapid Fire Pistol (RF) are as follow:
1. In the RF the active counterweight compensator has tungsten (carbide) weights. They are double the weight of the steel ones that are in the SP. Each one of the six weights is approximately 35 grams compare the 17 grams for the steel. The goal is to bring more weight to the front and improve the effectiveness of compensating the recoil. As a result the balance is more to the front (with all six tungsten you are adding 100 grams), the recoil is less and you have faster recovery after the shot. The negatives - you need to train more and build stronger grip and muscle strength.
2. The barrel is different. This does not make it less accurate. The transition from the chamber to the rifling part of the barrel is elongated approximately 10 mm. It has taper shape with the largest diameter close to the chamber and smooth transition to the standard diameter for .22LR barrel. The goal is to reduce the velocity of the bullet and bring it close to the ISSF limit of no less than 250 m/sec. (821 ft/sec) This additionally reduces the recoil and make the recovery easier.
3. There is a different bolt . The RF bolt is much lighter. As a result it cycles faster. In addition since the mass is smaller the energy of the bolt moving backwards and hitting the frame is less. Both bolts - SP and RF - have piston like shock absorber in the back next t the firing pin. If you are using any of the new bolts you do not need the green rubber shock absorber that was in the back of the frame in the older versions.
4. The RF hammer is modified so it has less mass. The idea is the same as with the bolt - faster cycling.
5. The front sight of the Rapid Fire pistol is 7 mm high compare to the 8 mm for the Sport Pistol. This is done to keep the diapason of correction ability same. Rapid fire you aim center mass while for the Precision stage of the Sport Pistol you aim 6 o'clock. The front sights are interchangeable and you can choose different heights and widths.
Is there a difference in the accuracy of SP and RF?
We did test both pistols from a rest and the grouping is about 3/4 inch with Eley Tenex with both guns. Of course this is the practice but there is a theoretical part as well. Because of the lowered velocity of the bullet in the RF pistol some people suggest that this give possibility for errors and increasing the group size. The reason is that supposedly you brake the shot in the perfect moment and in any given time prior or after this moment the shot will not be perfect. It is correct that we build a coordination so that we have a shot as close as possible to the perfect moment but in anyone who is shooting knows that there is always an area where the sighting point fluctuates while we are shooting so this will be an acceptable error. This is why with exactly the same reasoning one can say that if there was imperfection in the moment of the shot, the delay will give you a chance to recover the error. In both cases we are talking got human errors not for problems with the pistols. When you are making your selection chose a model that will fit better for the events you are shooting.
The next most often asked question is How to chose between Electronic and Mechanical trigger.
First I have to say that this is absolutely legal for use in international and/or NRA pistol events. This is a modification that is added between the trigger disconnector and the sear. Here is a simple explanation how it works: When you pull the trigger it moves the disconnector. The disconnector presses some kind of a switch. The switch is activating an electronic board that discharge a capacitor and as a result of the electric current electromagnet is "shooting" a permanent magnet rod (located in the center of the solenoid of the electromagnet). The rod hits the sear and the sear release the hammer.
What are some pros?
1. Because there is no pressure from the main spring (hammer spring) directly related to the trigger shoe it is more easy to build a trigger mechanism that is smooth and consistent.
2. It gives a lot of possibilities for easy and precise correction of the trigger.
3. The lock time is sorter. Big advantage for Rapid Fire Pistol and in some cases in Free pistol. (However the world record in Free Pistol was set by Alexander Melentiev in 1980 with mechanical trigger)
4. You can dry-fire and there is o need to re-cock the pistol to actually be able to make a "dry shot" . This is very useful if you are training Rapid Fire Pistol event.
5. The trigger can have extremely short reset. Again - very big advantage for Rapid fire.
And the cons:
1. It is expensive.
2. It is very precise mechanism. It is relatively easy to be abused and be broken.
3. It is picky and you will have to clean your gun more often.
4. Probably the worst - you will have to read the owner's manual and follow it :)
So I thing this gives you some answers. If this is not enough you can vist our website www.PardiniGuns.com you can email us at info@pardiniguns.com or call me at 1.813.748 3378
Also you can visit our store www.PardiniGuns.com/store and maybe we have better prices :)
Pardini USA LLCis the importer of all Pardini pistols, parts for them and we provide full service. We do not offer any other brand but with the Pardini we can help :)
When you chose your pistol make your selection based on the events you are planning to compete. Do not over pay for RF or Electronic pistol if you do not need the advantages that will come with them. Don't get me wrong, I will gladly take your money for Rapid Fire pistol with Electronic trigger but keep in mind that the pistol is the cheap part of the deal and safe money for the ammunition :) Check if the company is still manufacturing pistols and provides support. It is fact that our guns are not cheap but keep in mind that there is a reason why Pardini is dominating the International Rapid Fire Pistol Event. Seventy percent of the Rapid Fire Pistol shooters are using Pardini and usually 5 out of 6 finalists at the International Competitions are shooting our pistols. Nine out of the top 10 in the World Ranking List for Rapid Fire pistol and 34 out of the top 40 are using Pardini. The Americans Keith Sanderson (current Olympic Record Holder in Rapid Fire, 5 World Cup medals), Emil Milev (Olympic Silver medal, 14 World Cup medals), Nick Mowrer, John Ennis, Brad Balsley, Sean Ragay, Brenda Silva, Teresa Meyer, Elizabeth Callahan and others are competing with Pardini pistols. World class legends as Ralf Schumann from Germany (5 Olympic medals, 3 times Olympic Champion, 2 times World Champion, 13 times World Cup Final Winner, 55 medals from World Cups and 49 of them Gold), Maria Grozdeva from Bulgaria (5 Olympic medals, 2 times Olympic Champion, 2 times World Champion, 15 Gold medals from World Cups )
God luck and let me know if I can help with something else.
Vladimir Chichkov
Pardini USA LLC
www.PardiniGuns.com
www.PardiniGuns.com/store
info@pardiniguns.com
1.813.748 3378
Last edited by PardiniUSA on Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Freepistol
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 pm
- Location: Berwick, PA
I have spoken to Vladimir several times and he seems like a person with whom I'd like to do business. I am currently evaluating which way I am going or I would have purchased already.
I am pleased to have you participate on TT, Vladimir, and the information you have given as a first post is outstanding!
Ben
I am pleased to have you participate on TT, Vladimir, and the information you have given as a first post is outstanding!
Ben
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crankythunder
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:57 pm
- Location: The ugly side of Hell, Michigan
- Contact:
Wow!
Vladimir:
Thank you very much for a very detailed and informative response to my questions! I really apreciate the time you invested in my questions and I appreciate it immensely. I am impressed that you also included your phone number for a personal conference, a service that is not common with other firearm suppliers.
Currently, the IZH is still at the gunsmith getting repaired and I do not know if it will be repairable with respect to the cost/benifit anaylsis. Nevertheless, should it be cost prohibitive to return the Izzy to service, it looks like the standard pardini with the mechanical trigger is the way to go although I will be calling you at that point in time to confirm the correct choice in mechanical/electronic trigger selection. I will also bend your ear on the rapid fire/standard options, particularly with respect to the weight and balance aspects of the pistol. Before I call, I will get a accurate weight of my current firearm to help with the decision but I can tell you that while I do not know how much it weighs, I have considered adding barrel weights to improve my scores.
As for the izzy if it is wore out, it will be parted out to my buddies Izzy's and I will have considered it a good investment to get me from a beginner/intermediate shooter to a higher level bullseye competitor.
Regards,
Cranky
Thank you very much for a very detailed and informative response to my questions! I really apreciate the time you invested in my questions and I appreciate it immensely. I am impressed that you also included your phone number for a personal conference, a service that is not common with other firearm suppliers.
Currently, the IZH is still at the gunsmith getting repaired and I do not know if it will be repairable with respect to the cost/benifit anaylsis. Nevertheless, should it be cost prohibitive to return the Izzy to service, it looks like the standard pardini with the mechanical trigger is the way to go although I will be calling you at that point in time to confirm the correct choice in mechanical/electronic trigger selection. I will also bend your ear on the rapid fire/standard options, particularly with respect to the weight and balance aspects of the pistol. Before I call, I will get a accurate weight of my current firearm to help with the decision but I can tell you that while I do not know how much it weighs, I have considered adding barrel weights to improve my scores.
As for the izzy if it is wore out, it will be parted out to my buddies Izzy's and I will have considered it a good investment to get me from a beginner/intermediate shooter to a higher level bullseye competitor.
Regards,
Cranky
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PardiniUSA
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:41 pm
- Location: Tampa, FL
- Contact:
Forgive my English! Larry Carter is still importing Pardini and other guns. I wanted to say that we import and deal ONLY with Pardini. We also supply Pardini Pistols to any dealer in the US who is interested of selling our guns. However being Pardini USA, we provide the service to any Pardini regardless when and from whom it was bought.william wrote:Does this mean that Larry Carter is no longer importing Pardini pistols?Pardini USA LLCis the importer of all Pardini pistols
Cranky,
I purchased a Morini RF to get started earlier this year. I shoot the IPC sport pistol course of fire and I love the gun. When I was looking, my local dealer carried every major international brand except Pardini and I was not aware they made an electronic trigger. I love the electronic trigger on my AP and it makes dry firing and training very easy. This will be an even better feature for RF and SP training. I looked at the Pardini during USASNC and received the same explanation from Emil about the differences between the models. I've been wanting to buy one with electronic trigger every since even though I have decided to set the pistol aside and concentrate on rifle for the next few months.
I don't see how you could go wrong with the Pardini. The price is the same or lower than any of the top pistols, they hold there value, and you can already see the customer service you are going to recieve.
Good luck
I purchased a Morini RF to get started earlier this year. I shoot the IPC sport pistol course of fire and I love the gun. When I was looking, my local dealer carried every major international brand except Pardini and I was not aware they made an electronic trigger. I love the electronic trigger on my AP and it makes dry firing and training very easy. This will be an even better feature for RF and SP training. I looked at the Pardini during USASNC and received the same explanation from Emil about the differences between the models. I've been wanting to buy one with electronic trigger every since even though I have decided to set the pistol aside and concentrate on rifle for the next few months.
I don't see how you could go wrong with the Pardini. The price is the same or lower than any of the top pistols, they hold there value, and you can already see the customer service you are going to recieve.
Good luck