I know this subject has been discussed many times but I would like to know from those who know more about powders.
The most accurate ammo for my .32 is PMC factory ammo with 100gr HBWC and I haven't been able to replicate it with handloads using 310 or WST. When I shoot Lapua factory ammo it goes of with a sharp recoil - and the slide hits back really hard from what seems to be a very hot load. In contrast the PMC ammo is very soft in terms of recoil - the gun appears to take an age for the slide to cycle back, it feels as though the pressure behind the bullet is ramping up much more slowly. I can only assume this contrast to come about due to different powder burning rates.
I pulled a bullet from a PMC round, it had 1.4gr of a powder that looked like WST except that the roundish flakes were about twice as thick. Has anybody got any ideas? Is the slower/softer recoil due to a slower powder? My next plan was to try 330 powder - has anyone used this in .32 before?
0.32S&WLong and powders
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Tony C.
After I become the owner of a FAS 603 last yr, I've tried a number of powder, so far my best results is with 1.7 gr. W231 or 1.6 gr. Bulleyes with 100gr HBWC, only drawback is both of these powder are quite dirty,
for 90 gr. Hornady HBWC I up the charge 0.1 gr.
I also tried N310, burns very clean, accuracy OK, but Vihtavuori listed 1.3 gr as max. even I have load as much as 1.6 gr. without much apparent ill effect, however a friend of mine routinely load 1.7 gr. N310 in his Sako Tri-Ace suffer a broken extractor may or may not cause by going over the max. recomanded powder charge, so keep in mind N310 is a very fast powder, also IMHO WST seems a bit on the slow side.
From what I've seen a light crimp works best and you need to slug your barrel and size the bullets accordingly. Please let us know how it work out for you.
for 90 gr. Hornady HBWC I up the charge 0.1 gr.
I also tried N310, burns very clean, accuracy OK, but Vihtavuori listed 1.3 gr as max. even I have load as much as 1.6 gr. without much apparent ill effect, however a friend of mine routinely load 1.7 gr. N310 in his Sako Tri-Ace suffer a broken extractor may or may not cause by going over the max. recomanded powder charge, so keep in mind N310 is a very fast powder, also IMHO WST seems a bit on the slow side.
From what I've seen a light crimp works best and you need to slug your barrel and size the bullets accordingly. Please let us know how it work out for you.
This is an interesting subject.
Among cast bullet shooters, the fattest bullet that will chamber is the best. The pressures generated will easily swage down a fat bullet to bore size without getting too hot. It will also help ensure cleaner burning. Too small will be inaccurate.
A problem with the .32 is metering uniform charges. I have a big can of the old Winchester 452AA, a shotgun ball powder that throws with extreme uniformity. It was very popular with .45 shooters about the time Max Barringer won the National Championship using it.
If you can find some, great. It was also sold under the name Hodgdon Trap 100. There is still some of both floating around. In the small charges the .32 uses a pound will go a long way (5000 loads?).
Among cast bullet shooters, the fattest bullet that will chamber is the best. The pressures generated will easily swage down a fat bullet to bore size without getting too hot. It will also help ensure cleaner burning. Too small will be inaccurate.
A problem with the .32 is metering uniform charges. I have a big can of the old Winchester 452AA, a shotgun ball powder that throws with extreme uniformity. It was very popular with .45 shooters about the time Max Barringer won the National Championship using it.
If you can find some, great. It was also sold under the name Hodgdon Trap 100. There is still some of both floating around. In the small charges the .32 uses a pound will go a long way (5000 loads?).
A wide range of ideas so far, but no one has mentioned velocity.
The first thing to do is to buy a chronograph, so that way you will know what velocity your homeload or factory load is doing.
Next thing is to slug your barrel to know exactly what size it is.
Knowing your twist rate will also help you decide which type/size/weight projectile will suit your pistol.
Adjust your dies to suit the barrel diameter (sizer/neck sizer/seater/crimp).
Then load different powder (fast to slow) for a set velocity (for target .32 approx 680 to 750 fps).
Then with lots of both hand and machine rest shooting you will find a good accurate and great feeling load (it may take a number of tears and years).
Note.. if you change anything (cases, brand, primer, lube, projectile, powder etc.) go back and start again.
My load for a Manurhin .32 match is
84g cast BNWC single lube groove/bevel base, sized .313, in A58 alloy with beeswax lube
loaded with 1.4g N310, CCI primer, roll crimp in crimp groove.
this gives Average velocity of 730 fps with a SD 12, MAD 11and ES 50fps.
This will group 22mm form a machine rest (average 10 shots- outside to outside).
Each individual load should match each individual pistol.....good luck.
The first thing to do is to buy a chronograph, so that way you will know what velocity your homeload or factory load is doing.
Next thing is to slug your barrel to know exactly what size it is.
Knowing your twist rate will also help you decide which type/size/weight projectile will suit your pistol.
Adjust your dies to suit the barrel diameter (sizer/neck sizer/seater/crimp).
Then load different powder (fast to slow) for a set velocity (for target .32 approx 680 to 750 fps).
Then with lots of both hand and machine rest shooting you will find a good accurate and great feeling load (it may take a number of tears and years).
Note.. if you change anything (cases, brand, primer, lube, projectile, powder etc.) go back and start again.
My load for a Manurhin .32 match is
84g cast BNWC single lube groove/bevel base, sized .313, in A58 alloy with beeswax lube
loaded with 1.4g N310, CCI primer, roll crimp in crimp groove.
this gives Average velocity of 730 fps with a SD 12, MAD 11and ES 50fps.
This will group 22mm form a machine rest (average 10 shots- outside to outside).
Each individual load should match each individual pistol.....good luck.
For me Bullseye and WST work fine, N310 is better if available.
(Didn't have much luck with 231)
In 0.32 loads, powder type, assuming its one of the above, is not the biggest problem.
More significant variables are:
Consistency of thrown charge, pretty hard in 0.32.
Bullet design - Hollow base or solid, some arms prefer one of the two.
Bullet size relative to barrel.
Case sizer die - the size the case is after sizing.
Plug expander die size and length - the size of the case relative to the bullet after expanding - and if this matches the full length of the bullet
A heavy load can mask some of the issues but is not recommended for target arms, factory loads tend to be on the heavy side.
(Didn't have much luck with 231)
In 0.32 loads, powder type, assuming its one of the above, is not the biggest problem.
More significant variables are:
Consistency of thrown charge, pretty hard in 0.32.
Bullet design - Hollow base or solid, some arms prefer one of the two.
Bullet size relative to barrel.
Case sizer die - the size the case is after sizing.
Plug expander die size and length - the size of the case relative to the bullet after expanding - and if this matches the full length of the bullet
A heavy load can mask some of the issues but is not recommended for target arms, factory loads tend to be on the heavy side.
My question is how old is the recoil spring? Factory lapua is probably hotter than most people handload (I use VV310, 1.3g) but it still should not slam the slide into the frame. Seems to me the spring might be worn and after replacement you could find a load of VV or WST that works accurately and not cause damage to the gun. Guns and springs vary but it should be considered regular maintenance to replace the spring every few thousand rounds.
I used to load 1.5gr of WST and it worked well in my 603 but the VV load is much better.
I used to load 1.5gr of WST and it worked well in my 603 but the VV load is much better.
David M wrote:A wide range of ideas so far, but no one has mentioned velocity.
The first thing to do is to buy a chronograph, so that way you will know what velocity your homeload or factory load is doing.
Next thing is to slug your barrel to know exactly what size it is.
Knowing your twist rate will also help you decide which type/size/weight projectile will suit your pistol.
Adjust your dies to suit the barrel diameter (sizer/neck sizer/seater/crimp).
Then load different powder (fast to slow) for a set velocity (for target .32 approx 680 to 750 fps).
Then with lots of both hand and machine rest shooting you will find a good accurate and great feeling load (it may take a number of tears and years).
Note.. if you change anything (cases, brand, primer, lube, projectile, powder etc.) go back and start again.
My load for a Manurhin .32 match is
84g cast BNWC single lube groove/bevel base, sized .313, in A58 alloy with beeswax lube
loaded with 1.4g N310, CCI primer, roll crimp in crimp groove.
this gives Average velocity of 730 fps with a SD 12, MAD 11and ES 50fps.
This will group 22mm form a machine rest (average 10 shots- outside to outside).
Each individual load should match each individual pistol.....good luck.
I'm intrigued by the mention of A58 alloy - what's that - and where do you get it?
Do you have a figure for the amount of interference between the sized case and bullet?Adjust your dies to suit the barrel diameter (sizer/neck sizer/seater/crimp).
With too little interference the bullet can be pushed into the case, too much and the bullet gets resized on seating.
I use 7.62x26 which is tapered, hence I can adjust the case sizing a little.
Otherwise playing with the expander plug dia does the same thing.
Case Tension
Greetings,
I load with a Star and machine expander plugs to match the bullet I am loading. I am finding that an expander 0.001" larger than the bullet I load works well. I use Lapua brass and other brands may have different spring back conditions.
Cheers,
Dave Wilson
I load with a Star and machine expander plugs to match the bullet I am loading. I am finding that an expander 0.001" larger than the bullet I load works well. I use Lapua brass and other brands may have different spring back conditions.
Cheers,
Dave Wilson
Thanks for all the input.
Does anyone have any comment about the type of powder or burning rate that gives the differences in recoil/action that I describe in my opening enquiry.
The gun is a Bennelli MP90S World Cup. I don't think the recoil spring would be faulty. I am also intrigued about 310 loads because nearly everyone uses around 1.3 to 1.4gr but the VV loading guide says 1.4gr starting laod, 1.9gr maximum. I made an expanding cylindrical plug moreso to stop the bullets tumbling. It doesn't seem to have helped much. This weekend I will load some hotter loads eg 1.5-1.6gr 310 and see if the bullets stop tumbling and the group size gets smaller. I expect sharper recoil will result. Another colleague uses HS-6 powder, I might try some of that as well.
Does anyone have any comment about the type of powder or burning rate that gives the differences in recoil/action that I describe in my opening enquiry.
The gun is a Bennelli MP90S World Cup. I don't think the recoil spring would be faulty. I am also intrigued about 310 loads because nearly everyone uses around 1.3 to 1.4gr but the VV loading guide says 1.4gr starting laod, 1.9gr maximum. I made an expanding cylindrical plug moreso to stop the bullets tumbling. It doesn't seem to have helped much. This weekend I will load some hotter loads eg 1.5-1.6gr 310 and see if the bullets stop tumbling and the group size gets smaller. I expect sharper recoil will result. Another colleague uses HS-6 powder, I might try some of that as well.
Factory Loads
Lapua 84g .313dia 1.7g N310 785 fps
Lapua 98g .314dia 1.7g N310 787 fps
PMC 98g .312dia 1.4g unknown 575 fps
Home Loads
98g .313 dia 1.3 N310 680 fps
1.4 N310 730 fps
1.5 N310 770 fps
1.6 WST 710 fps
1.8 WST 798 fps
A slower powder will soften the felt recoil (a bigger blast but a slower push- not so cracky).
Fastest to slowest for .32's (approx load for 720 fps)
N310 1.4g
Bullseye 1.5g
AS30n 1.5g
Gm3 1.5g
WST 1.6g
AP50n 1.6g
Trailboss 1.8g
N320 1.8g
231 1.8g
AP70n 2.0g
(Approx guide only- depends on pistol/bullet combination.)
A58 alloy is 5.8% Antonamy from the lead smelter in 22kg ingot.
Lapua 84g .313dia 1.7g N310 785 fps
Lapua 98g .314dia 1.7g N310 787 fps
PMC 98g .312dia 1.4g unknown 575 fps
Home Loads
98g .313 dia 1.3 N310 680 fps
1.4 N310 730 fps
1.5 N310 770 fps
1.6 WST 710 fps
1.8 WST 798 fps
A slower powder will soften the felt recoil (a bigger blast but a slower push- not so cracky).
Fastest to slowest for .32's (approx load for 720 fps)
N310 1.4g
Bullseye 1.5g
AS30n 1.5g
Gm3 1.5g
WST 1.6g
AP50n 1.6g
Trailboss 1.8g
N320 1.8g
231 1.8g
AP70n 2.0g
(Approx guide only- depends on pistol/bullet combination.)
A58 alloy is 5.8% Antonamy from the lead smelter in 22kg ingot.
After several years reloading .32, I think that all the dies are unsuitable for wadcutter bullets. I have three, Dillon, Lee, RCBS ... The best in my opinion are the RCBS that have an expanding plug that expands the cartridge case almost the entire length of the bullet.
The expanding plug Dillon and Lee are too short. When I use the bullet puller, the base of the bullets is heavy tapered.
Since the expander plug Dillon and Lee are also powder funnels, this is a big problem for those who want to reload many cartridges per hour, but unfortunately the speed and the quality of the cartridges do not agree.
The expanding plug Dillon and Lee are too short. When I use the bullet puller, the base of the bullets is heavy tapered.
Since the expander plug Dillon and Lee are also powder funnels, this is a big problem for those who want to reload many cartridges per hour, but unfortunately the speed and the quality of the cartridges do not agree.
If you have a 650XL or another press with a free station, you can put an expander plug into station 3, between powder filling and bullet seating. Did that, and it works like a dream. Cases are resized for 3/4 of the bullet length - bullet goes in perfectly vertical - base stays intact - no tumbling anymore. And, IMHO, most people are loading their .32 too hot, at least for the 25m range. 1.4 N310 is perfectly fast enough, more will kill the gun, rather sooner than later. I'm shooting 1.25 N310 behind a 83grs Lapua in my MG4 (ok, long barrel), and that does very well.
PMC factory ammo
How do you explain the PMC factory ammo with it's 100gr HBWC and low velocity. I don't get any bullet tumbling with it. Do you think it's a real slow powder? It's certainly a soft load when it goes off!