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Martindale guage for .45

 
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harvester



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Martindale guage for .45 Reply with quote

I just got a Martindale guage and have been going through my brass.

I have probably went through 500 casings and half go through ok and the other half don't.

Does this mean these cases are bad??? I have been loading them multiple times with bullseye loads and have had no issues to date.

I have a thousand once fired RP's and they are even 50% ok. I hate to look at the 2000 I just bought that were once fired. No Glock stuff.

I'm concerned but should I be??

Thanks
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Isabel1130



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 1107
Location: Wyoming

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try resizing the cases and then putting them through the gauge. You may have fine luck with your gun with cases that don't go through the gauge. You can try a drop test on your rounds to see if they drop into your barrel easily even though they are slightly too big for the gauge, You might want to save rounds that either fit tightly or don't go through the gauge for slow fire or practice where you will not have issues with a refire if the round does not chamber correctly from the magazine. I have found new brass that has been through only my gun has no problem fitting through the gauge. Range brass tends to be a mized bag, If it has been through a gun that does not quite lock up as it fires it can create a slight bulge near the bottom of the case which will keep the fired brass from going through the gauge.
somethines this can be corrected by resizing in your reloader, other times it cannot if the brass is too bulged or you dont have your resizing die set to go all the way to the bottom of the case. Isabel
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tumble, then use the Martindale gauge. Don't tumble, resize, and then use the gauge -- this defeats the primary purpose of weeding out overly stressed brass!

There are specific instructions and I will try to find same and post. You can contact Bruce Martindale directly on the Bullseye-L list.
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Isabel1130



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 1107
Location: Wyoming

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not believe the main purpose of the Martindale gauge is to weed out overly stressed brass. Who can tell that without an examination under an electron microscope? It is to weed out finished rounds that will not chamber correctly in your gun causing an alabi and also to weed out flaws in the reloading process (like you have failed to crimp the round) or brass that cannot be resized correctly that has a bulged base. I find it easier to sort before I reload and then resize anything that will not pass trough the gauge before I attemt to reload, It has saved a lot of work and expensive bullets, and primers that I don't want to have to extract from a bad case or worse lock my expensive wad gun up in the middle of a match. Isabel
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GOVTMODEL



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 566
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isabel1130 wrote:
I do not believe the main purpose of the Martindale gauge is to weed out overly stressed brass. Who can tell that without an examination under an electron microscope? It is to weed out finished rounds that will not chamber correctly in your gun causing an alabi and also to weed out flaws in the reloading process (like you have failed to crimp the round) or brass that cannot be resized correctly that has a bulged base. I find it easier to sort before I reload and then resize anything that will not pass trough the gauge before I attemt to reload, It has saved a lot of work and expensive bullets, and primers that I don't want to have to extract from a bad case or worse lock my expensive wad gun up in the middle of a match. Isabel


Negative. The purpose of the Martindale Gauge is to identify brass that has been overstressed and should not be reloaded.
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Isabel1130



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 1107
Location: Wyoming

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvester, you can believe me or you can believe Govtmodel but if you believe him, let me send you my address so you can send me all of your brass that wont pass through the Martindale gauge before resizing. As long as it is not separting at the base it is all completely safe to shoot. I prefer Starline, Federal or Winchester. I will pay shipping and my friends and I will enjoy reloading it and shooting it, I know Bruce Martindale and last year at Camp Perry he was instructing Dr Nick of Mountain Competition pistols how to use his gauge on the firing line to weed out rounds that might not feed correctly into his gun. :-) Thanks in advance, Isabel
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GOVTMODEL



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 566
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isabel1130 wrote:
Harvester, you can believe me or you can believe Govtmodel but if you believe him, let me send you my address so you can send me all of your brass that wont pass through the Martindale gauge before resizing.


Don't believe me when you can believe Bruce himself! Here's an email exchange between Bruce and me from earlier today-

Re: The Proper Use of the Legendary Martindale Gauge‏
From: Bruce Martindale (kingsarcher2@yahoo.com)
Sent: Sun 3/14/10 5:20 PM
To: Richard Ashmore (govtmodel@hotmail.com)

Hi Rich

I have been SOL on the computer for a week so I have to catch up

You're half right as there are 2 causes of faiure (sic); rims and web yield

Yes for the discard from either

now on to the suspense of the BE saga

regards b

--- On Sun, 3/14/10, Richard Ashmore <govtmodel@hotmail.com> wrote:


From: Richard Ashmore <govtmodel@hotmail.com>
Subject: The Proper Use of the Legendary Martindale Gauge
To: "Bruce Martindale" <kingsarcher2@yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 3:08 PM




Hello, Bruce,


There is some disagreement on Target Talk about the intended use of your gauge.


My recollection is that fired brass that won't pass through your gauge has been overstressed and should not be re-used. Is this correct? inquiring minds want to know

Richard Ashmore
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Bruce Martindale



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh, I didn't think to look here, I was on the BE List

There is this instruction sheet that came with it

It is copywrighted so please do not post it here; big boo boo

...and yes I did have metalography done. That case had a crack in the base

To the original poster, you did not state if it was your fired brass or range pick up. So here is what you can do: hold on..dog has to go out.
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Bruce Martindale



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I'm back and dog is happy now. She wasn't going to take "wait" for an answer !

OP You didnt state the mode of failure; web yield or rim. Web yield is more serious and indicative of plastic pistol syndrome or seriously overstressed cases if from a 1911. I would chuck those, but thats your choice.

You can take your "failed" cases and set aside for practice and check them once again. Obviously, oversized rims aren't going to fix themselves but they may not necessarily jam in your gun, but then again, thats why the gauge is there.

Re the web yield, they might be on the edge and will pass if checked again after firing in your gun. If not, well, thats your choice too.

Gauge does not check for open crimps etc as a chamber does. By testing loaded ammo, you lose half the function of the gauge.

BTW, The only source of the gauge is from me. If you got one made somewhere else, I want to know about it please.

Re Dr Nick, He had an awful time last summer with both bulged and OS rim cases and every shell that jammed failed my gauge.

best regards
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harvester



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Martindale guage Reply with quote

I recently received the guage from you Bruce. Read all the instructions many times. I have checked some of my old brass that I have loaded and shot probably 10 or more times. No issues as I have never had even a misfire or failure to load. Over 10K rounds in the last year. About half of this brass fails.

I also checked some once fired RP brass I use for competition. About half failed to go through the guage. I have a couple thousand once fired Federal that I will check next. No Glock brass.

I am getting quite a pile of brass that won't go through the guage. Some gets part way through and hangs up right where the case indents just above the rim. Some hang up on the rim. Some only go in far enough where the mouth of the case doesn't even clear the guage.

Now I worry about my brass and most of my shooting buddies are wanting me to give the brass to them. I have a Larry Leutenegger built .45 that shoots X ring so I'm concerned about hurting the gun.
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Bruce Martindale



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this is interesting. I do maintain tight tolerances on the gauges and reject many as well. It is possible that your chamber falls on the larger side and the gauge on minimum side with nothing really wrong with either item.

Some questions:

What is your load and bullet? What loading dies (a $ says a Dillon)

How much of the case wall fails to go through?

What is the barrel Larry put in it?

You can send me an e-mail with your gauge ID measurement if you wish.

It isn't an exact science but a relative indication of condition

best regards
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harvester



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: martindale guage Reply with quote

650 Dillon. Love it.

160 Valiant with 3.4 Vectan. Shoots very well.

Varies. Sometimes the case goes all the way thru but catches on the rim. Sometimes it only goes in halfway. Sometimes it catches where the casing indents just before the rim.

Kart barrel

.Thanks,
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harvester



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Martindale guage Reply with quote

Casings from my gun are just fine. All go throught the guage. My sons gun chamber must be larger (Rock River). None of those fit through. They just start and that is it.
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Bruce Martindale



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a couple people find chamber problems in the last ten tears of market use.

Did your sons RR ever have a reloading "adventure" (that he is aware of)?

His shells will work harder in the resizing/firing cycle and have more stress. Do they feel different in the sizer die compared to yours?

Some thing to try in his case (pardon the pun) is to resize and load his shells and then run them in the gauge. The mouth will definitely fit then but if there is bulge it will hang up. That tells you where the web region stands in accumulated stress. You can check the rims from either direction.

Let me know what you find and you can send an e-m if you need to.

best regards
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