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Hammerli 208S vs Feinwerkbau Aw93 vs Unique Des 69U

 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:32 am    Post subject: Hammerli 208S vs Feinwerkbau Aw93 vs Unique Des 69U Reply with quote

Have to decide which of these 3 pistols I'm gonna buy. Pro's / Con's - anybody?
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Alexander



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 390
Location: Old Europe

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price difference might be significant, and might be factor for your decision. You can get a Hämmerli 208 or 215 for as low as 100-200 € here, whereas a used FWB 93 stays expensive.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander wrote:
The price difference might be significant, and might be factor for your decision. You can get a Hämmerli 208 or 215 for as low as 100-200 € here, whereas a used FWB 93 stays expensive.


The price is not the big issue. What I would like is a great pistol. So again, pro's/con's - anybody?
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Isabel1130



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 1053
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know much about the Unique I suspect that they are a very rare gun in bullseye so it will be difficult to find parts and support for them. The Hammerli has two great businesses in the US that support them very well, I have both the 208s and the AW-93. Pros and cons are the 208 is less ammo picky than the AW-93. The AW-93 hass a rather tight chamber desiged for the Lapua ammo and it can get picky and balky if not kept very clean. The Hammerli is more tolerant of dirt. If you are going to shoot with iron sights, I find the iron sights on the AW-93 to be some of the best that I have seen. The trigger is also easier to adjust and you can make it do pretty much whatever you want from a long roll to a short roll to a true two stage with a crisp 1st stage. The AW-93 can be dry fired without a plug in the chamber. I shoot both guns pretty much equally well but I prefer the AW-93 because I am a lefty and the AW-93 is set up to be a truely ambidextrous gun with the slide release on the right hand side when you order the left handed model. Isabel
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GOVTMODEL



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 561
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammerli 208S vs Feinwerkbau Aw93 vs Unique Des 69U Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Have to decide which of these 3 pistols I'm gonna buy. Pro's / Con's - anybody?


Unique- assuming you're in the USA (you didn't say) support is problematic.

Hammerli 208s- great pistol, but no longer produced. Slides crack and firing pins wear out. Magazines are expensive.

FWB- great pistol, quite expensive in the USA.
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hill987



Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 108
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: foreign pistols Reply with quote

If in the U S A what about the high standard made right here in the U S .. great shooters I have three, They also have custom shop. Good thing to know when they need fixed and they will all need work at some point. Good to know you can pick up the phone and talk with them when the time comes
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Brian James



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 328
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Unique typically has a very good and durable build quality and a great trigger. Parts are available in europe on a limited basis from what I can tell.


Brian
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jipe



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 810

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First difference: DES and 208 are no more in production while AW93 is.

DES is a very good pistol, parts can easily be found in France, it is well build, little problems. The only part that need to be replaced (not that often) is the firing pin but this is the case for most .22lr pistols.

208 becomes a pretty old design, not as the level of the DES or the AW93

AW93 is a top of the line match pistol. It is still in production and FWB has very good track record for customer support (at least in Europe). Yes, chamber is tight and it doesn't like bigger ammunition like CCI since it was designed for european ammunitions that are sligthly smaller. Nevertheless, if price is not an issue (AW93 is pretty expensive), I would recommend the AW93.
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Isabel1130



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 1053
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to add that even though CCI SV is a tight fit in the AW-93 chamber I have used it successfully in many matches with this gun, It has a higher velocity that makes up quite a bit for the tight chamber fit and as long as the gun is reasonably clean and I have not changed ammo without cleaning it before using the CCI SV, I have had no problems with it or green tag or CCI pistol match in the gun. I have a friend who has an older model AW-93 and he uses Aguila SV almost exclusively in the gun with no problems. Isabel
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Mass Shooter



Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you locate a nice DES69 ammo selection shouldn't be any issues, those things will fire almost any rimfire brand on the planet.

M.S.
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tenex



Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point, I'd get a Model 41 in lieu of a 208, just due to parts and service availability. If you want a dot it's a lot easier than the other guns to mount, and you can modify extra barrels to your hearts content to play with weight and balance.

Steve.

P.S. If you want a really great pistol, I'd recommend a Pardini. Don't get me wrong, I think the Unique and the 208's are great classics and I'd love to have one, but there's a reason they're out of production and Pardini can't make SP's fast enough.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tenex wrote:
At this point, I'd get a Model 41 in lieu of a 208, just due to parts and service availability. If you want a dot it's a lot easier than the other guns to mount, and you can modify extra barrels to your hearts content to play with weight and balance.

Steve.

P.S. If you want a really great pistol, I'd recommend a Pardini. Don't get me wrong, I think the Unique and the 208's are great classics and I'd love to have one, but there's a reason they're out of production and Pardini can't make SP's fast enough.


So how does the Pardini compare to the AW93?
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Isabel1130



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 1053
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only beef with the Pardini, is that the magazine in forward of the trigger so the balance is entirely different from the AW-93 and the 208. If you don't like a gun that is muzzle heavy you won't like it. I don't know about the adjustability of the trigger. Others would have to comment on that. I had a GSP for many years and finally figured out that the magazine forward of the trigger was why I hated shooting it so much. That problem was solved with both the Hammerli and the AW-93 which for me are a joy to shoot with a balance and a feel more like my 45.
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tenex



Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:

So how does the Pardini compare to the AW93?


I've never had the opportunity to shoot the AW93, I assume the balance is similar to the 208. As Isabel pointed, out the gun does have more weight forward which some people like, and others don't. I think the Walther GSP may be more extreme, since the frame is all steel and the grip is a bit more upright than the Pardini (some one please correct me if I'm wrong).

In my case the 2 pistols that point the best for me is the Pardini with the 1 piece Nygord grip, and a Model 41 with a large Nill grip (with the 7 inch barrel and iron sights). Although the 2 are very different WRT weight and balance, the more forward weight of the Pardini is made up by the more severe rake of the grip. I think the trick here is to find the right grip angle for the gun you have, to put your wrist in the right position. For me, the same 41 with a short barrel and a dot becomes harder to hold, the higher sight line and extra weight require me to rotate my wrist up just that little bit too far, and I feel like I'm always prying the muzzle up to the target.

The Pardini trigger is very nice. You can set it up as a true 2 stage, long single stage, shorter single stage, and it holds adjustments very nicely.

Just my 2 cents,
Steve.
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jipe



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 810

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isabel1130 wrote:
My only beef with the Pardini, is that the magazine in forward of the trigger so the balance is entirely different from the AW-93 and the 208. If you don't like a gun that is muzzle heavy you won't like it. I don't know about the adjustability of the trigger. Others would have to comment on that. I had a GSP for many years and finally figured out that the magazine forward of the trigger was why I hated shooting it so much. That problem was solved with both the Hammerli and the AW-93 which for me are a joy to shoot with a balance and a feel more like my 45.


As Isabel said, the AW93 feels more like a big bore pistol with its more vertical grip while the Pardini is a typical (and one of the best) modern standard pistol with a raked grip.

The Pardini has more rake than the GSP and this makes that its heavy muzzle weight (more inmportant in fact for the balance than the magazine in front of the trigger, the Morini CM22M that has its magazine placed like the Pardini and GSP is not muzzel heavy) is not a problem and results in a very stable/low muzzle jump pistol.

As a rule of tumb, people used to shoot a .45 or another big bore pistol, usually prefer less rake and match pistols like the AW93. While people using only match pistols and coming from/used to shoot AP or FP will prefer pistols with a raked grip like the Pardini, Morini, MG2, SSP...

Note that due to the top loading system of the SSP, the angle of the grip of the SSP can be modified and a less raked grip is available for it from Rink.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decided to go with the AW93 - it's now ordered. Thanks for all the suggestions/recommendations.
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