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b
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 Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I can see making one a side cocker because it gives you additional flexibility with the grip. My TOZ is stock and the grip has to be locked in place each time I put the gun on but it fits well when the palm rest is in place. A side cocker with a 1 piece grip may work better for some and so that looks like a good mod. The TOZ grips can be pretty crappy for some thus requiring lots of work. Make yourself happy with whatever mods you like. I agree with Chris in that I would not do anything to negatively effect the accuracy because this is what FP is all about. If you decide that you have a valid reason for your mod idea, then do it. The main thing is to enjoy yourself. What is use in not having fun. I was in this sport for a long time and shot all over the world (almost) and have seen a lot of ideas come and go. Except for the electric trigger, it seems that the basic ideas for gun configurations have always come back to the center. Modify your gun to make yourself happy...because happy people shoot better.
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Chris
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 229
Location: OR
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| zoned wrote: | | Always the timid fear mongers. If I worried what the "world class level" shooters did, I'd never go to the range nor have an independent thought. The view never changes when you're following. |
Is that what you think? Really. We are having a civil discussion here and you start calling people names. You have got to be kidding. Just becuase some do not agree to modify a Toz that may reduce a accuracy.
I would make any modifications to it if I knew it would improve the accuracy or my performance. For me that is what makes it fun. New barrel or comp would be at the top of my list. You would not even recognize my grip for what it started out as.
For the time I have available to me at this point I would rather spend my time dry firing, shooting or loading for bulls-eye. You have to remember on TT we all have different goals in this sport. Some are in it for fun and they just like to shoot. Others are in it for being the best and want to go to the Olympics and then all the people in the middle. We all have to get along
I am sure there is something that I could do to improve the accuracy but I do not have the time to explore it. Since it shoots a good group today the best way to improve my experiance and performance it to just shoot it as it is.
If a person likes to tinker and they do not care what score they have then I think they should do what every they like to do. You never know what you many find on the way. If it were not for the people who tinker we would not have many of the pistols we have today.
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paulo
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Where could I buy a Morini rear site to adapt to a TOZ?
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Chris
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 229
Location: OR
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| paulo wrote: | | Where could I buy a Morini rear site to adapt to a TOZ? |
Here is another mod I would make. I also like the side lever modification. I have a second toz I picked up to have a back up trigger group and I may try to modifiy it one day when I have some time.
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jsealc21
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Temecula,Ca
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| paulo wrote: | | Where could I buy a Morini rear site to adapt to a TOZ? |
try Chuck Gartland at cgartland@windstream.net he builds the tricked-out Toz pistols for the military marksmanship units
his website is www.gartlandprecisionllc.com where there is a picture of the installation
Last edited by jsealc21 on Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:51 am; edited 3 times in total |
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ken4all
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I would also be interested to see a close-up of that morini rear sight on the toz
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paulo
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I asked for the price of upgrading the TOZ with Gartland, it was more than what the gun with morini grips cost me.
I thought the Morini sights for now would be all I want, gun barrel is very accurate for now.
Take a pick at the morini rear sights http://www.gartlandprecisionllc.com/toz_pistol/100_1534.jpg , I am also trying to see the consequence of increasing sight radius with the original sites, but the relation to front sight changes and the gaps become wider as you move rear sights back, the morini rear sights gap can be changed in increments of 1mm and that makes them ideal for what I am trying to accomplish.
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Last edited by paulo on Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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b
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: TOZ sight mod |
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| Interested idea Paulo. One thing you might consider first is how this would change your perception of the sight movement. With the rear sight that far behind the hand, it will now start to move in the opposite direction of the front sight as the hand moves. The hand is now the pivot point. With the reat sight on the pivot point, or nearly so, the movement is not magnified as much. It would be interesting to see how the perception of movement changes if you move the front sight out as opposed to moving the rear sight back. Sight radius is important in precision shooting. More radius better enables you to call shots. However, the extra radius can negatively affect trigger control if your movement begins to show up too much thereby disturbing your concentration. Just my thoughts and it is an interesting idea.
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paulo
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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It groups great, front sight focus is PERFECT, yes you see more movement but the great front sight focus overrides it, it will take practice to get used to, but I am very happy with the results, doesn't fit the original box.
Now that I know it works for me, I am finding a machinist to fabricate an extension in steel.
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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"I asked for the price of upgrading the TOZ with Gartland, it was more than what the gun with morini grips cost me. "
was that for just the rear sight mod, or a complete rebuild?
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paulo
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: |
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The complete upgrade, but contact them with your own request, they are quick to answer.
I contacted them for the rear sights, they don't have any in stock but the price is $195.00.
www.gartlandprecisionllc.com
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jsealc21
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Temecula,Ca
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | paulo wrote: | | ...www.gartlandprecisionllc.com |
"Custom TOZ Free Pistols
Match Barrels Installed
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............. "
I wasn't aware that the barrel on a TOZ-35 is not already a "match barrel". Gartland is just another pimp shop selling chrome hubcaps. |
Dear Anonymous,please refrain from showing your bad manners and ignorance...it happens that a large number of our military and olympic team members use pistols built by Chuck Gartland. They would not be using his products if they were not superior to the factory version. Perhaps you could back up your childish statement by publishing your name and any certified free pistol scores you might have shot...only when those scores are in the 550 range, would anyone give a "flying @#%^" what you said.
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ghostrip
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 97
Location: ATHENS, GREECE
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | paulo wrote: | | ...www.gartlandprecisionllc.com |
"Custom TOZ Free Pistols
Match Barrels Installed
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............. "
I wasn't aware that the barrel on a TOZ-35 is not already a "match barrel". Gartland is just another pimp shop selling chrome hubcaps. |
capable gunsmiths are certainly not pimp shops. shooters seek the absolute not only in performance but also ergonomics etc and each shooter is unique... i have changed the rear sight plate of my izzy to that of a pardini because it offers more adjustability.
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Anonymous wrote:
paulo wrote:
...www.gartlandprecisionllc.com
"Custom TOZ Free Pistols
Match Barrels Installed
.............
............. "
I wasn't aware that the barrel on a TOZ-35 is not already a "match barrel". Gartland is just another pimp shop selling chrome hubcaps.
Lets see if you have a Toz that will compare with one built by Gartland. The top 4 or 5 guys in the US are using a Gartland built Toz.
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paulo
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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I would not mind having a Gartland full upgrade, but I would have to make it to a National top ten ranking before I made the investment.
My original barrel is still convincing me to shoot tens, so I will keep with it.
Yes I know, I cut out the lower scores, but everybody keeps saying, repeat the tens, so that is what I am concentrating on.
Happy Easter!
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| This morning at 50 yards, TOZ and CCI SV with just a slight bit of wind. |
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Ernie Rodriguez
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 254
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:19 am Post subject: Ammo Test |
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| Paulo-by any chance did you test different brands of ammo in the TOZ?? From sandbags?bench?? If so was it a Toz-35M or a Toz-35?? Results????TNX.
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j-team
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: |
I wasn't aware that the barrel on a TOZ-35 is not already a "match barrel". Gartland is just another pimp shop selling chrome hubcaps.
Lets see if you have a Toz that will compare with one built by Gartland. The top 4 or 5 guys in the US are using a Gartland built Toz. |
My original "non match" barrel on my old Toz could put 10 shots into 13mm at 50m from a machine rest.
I think that was good enough for me, don't think I would have bothered upgrading it to a "match" barrel unless I was shooting 600 and still loosing on X ring countbacks!
Also, I often wonder what the attraction of putting a Morini rearsight on a Toz is? for a start, there's nothing wrong with the original, the only thing to gain is an adjustable width notch (wich after the initial fiddling will probably not be touched). But, the price you pay if you use a Morini rearsight is having to use a screw driver to make adjustments. If I was so inclined to replace my Toz rearsight to get this adjustable notch feature, I would use a Steyr AP rearsight, they're far superior to the Morini one. The Steyr sight has width and depth adjustable notch and knurled windage and elevation knobs.
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b
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: TOZ barrel |
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| I have had 2 Toz's, one a 35 and the other a 35M. Both tested approx 1/2 inch at 50M out of a machind rest with a good lot of Tenex ammo.
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Tycho
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 562
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| As far as I remember, 20mm (enclosed) was guaranteed for the TOZ, at least here by the Swiss importer. Of course, that was back in the 80s. So the only thing that could make me think about switching barrels would be a carbon enclosed tube or something like that, altering the point of balance. But then, I'm not a FP specialist...
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paulo
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Ammo Test |
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| Ernie Rodriguez wrote: | | Paulo-by any chance did you test different brands of ammo in the TOZ?? From sandbags?bench?? If so was it a Toz-35M or a Toz-35?? Results????TNX. |
I shot that single hand, standing, wind was breezy 2-4 miles left to right, original rear sights, with a one year old TOZ 35M bought new from ISS, and CCI SV.
I tested other ammo, but I always go back to CCI SV for ratio of price to accuracy being very high in my favor.
My tests, when I bought this gun showed that Eley Team and OSP were phenomenal with this gun, next in line Tenex P, and Match.
R50 was good and RWS yellow was not bad at all.
I never shot Lapua (SK got bought by them I know) but I am very curious about the results on a TOZ.
This was all non scientific from a hand held stand resting on a sand bag at 50 yards.
I made the decision to stay around or below $10 per 100 22lr bullets, and that made me use CCI SV, and SK Standard Plus which varies a lot with lots.
Last edited by paulo on Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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