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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:39 pm 
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This is a follow-up post to the other thread that I made in the bullseye section.

Pardini SP .22 LR - Recommendations and Experiances Wanted

I'm looking at the options available for mounting Red Dot scopes and I'm particullarly interested in the UltraDot Match 30mm scope since it seems to be recommended and quite popular. I'm interested in this specific model since it has the small 2 MOA dot whereas the other UltraDot scopes start at the 4 MOA dot size and move up from there.

I have the Milett RedDot SP-1 scope with a 5 MOA on my S&W 686 6" .38spl/.357mag and when I shoot at my in-door range at 50-feet I feel that the large 5 MOA dot obscures too much of the 10 & X rings so I cannot aim a precise shot and that is why I'm more interested in the smaller 2 MOA dot and since this dot size only comes on the 30mm size scope my availability of mounting rings is thus limited.

The most obvious option is to purchase the Picattiny/Weaver rail for the Pardini SP and mount any 30mm rings that I want on it, like the ones that should come with the scope.

The other option is to buy specific rings for the small .22 caliber rails on the Pardini SP such as the ones shown below from Larry's Guns or possibily the Burris 1" (Deluxe Steel) Rings .22 also shown below but then I'd have to change my red dot scope to a 1-inch (25mm) model since these rings only come in the 1-inch (25mm) size.

What to do?

Pardini SP - .22 LR - $1,846 USD (~$1,400-1,500 USD Used)

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Pardini SP Magazine .22 LR - $58 USD

Rings

(Unsure if the Burris rings fit the Pardini rail)

Burris 1" Deluxe Steel Rings .22

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Burris 1" Rings .22

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Larry's Guns - Scope rings, Pardini - $22.78 USD

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Pardini SP Scope Mount - $139 USD

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Scopes

UltraDot Match 30 mm Red Dot Sight (2, 4, 6, 8 MOA) - $189 USD

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Aimpoint Micro R-1 (4 MOA) - ~$450 USD

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Last edited by JakFrost on Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:53 pm 
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Location: Connecticut, USA
For me the SP just points like a dream (I also really like the Benelli). When I settle down on the target, the gun just hangs there. I knew this gun would work before I even fired a shot, as soon as I held it on a target I could see that it was a lot more stable than my other .22s. In addition, the 2 stage trigger is very forgiving of bad technique (which I exercise pretty much every match).

Steve.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:06 am 
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The SP is an amazing pistol, the trigger seems to be one of the things about the pistol people like or can't stand. I really like it. For me the balance and sight picture is fantastic. With that said, I sold it for a MatchGun MG2 and while the MG2s intially had some troubles I have never shot better with any pistol.

The Pardini is the safe bet, and service from Pardini is superb.

Brian


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:12 am 
While the Pardini is indeed a fine firearm, your post is somewhat confusing in its purpose.

Do want comments on the Pardini, or do you want comments on purchasing a first pistol for bullseye?

Quote:
Some people prefer the Hammerli 208s and Benelli, or Feinwerkbau AW93 pistols but it seems that the general consensus is that the Pardini SP is a bit better than those. If there are other choices that I should also consider in this quality class of pistol, please let me know.


If you are truly interested in conventional pistol, rather than international, I would suggest you consider the following as well.

If pursuing bullseye, you will eventually need a .45, which will brobably be a 1911 based gun. Therefore you will have two distincly different grip angles (which is why ths M41, Hammerli and others are sometimes chosen as the grip angles are or can be made closer to the 1911 pattern).

Quote:
I'm looking for personal experiences and recommendations with the Pardini SP pistol since I'm looking at it as my first purchase for a .22 LR caliber pistol and I want to buy a pistol that is one of the best so that I can avoid the years of upgrading and replacing other pistols.


If you don't own a .22 now, how do you know you will enjoy and continue the sport? So you might consider that as a percentage and total $'s, you might get more back from a used Ruger or at least not tie up as much capital.

If you think buying the best will help with improvement, then you might want to rethink your priorities as well. It is nice to have a "perfect" gun, but it's better to get the fundamental down and make sure you have the committment and desire to achieve.

Cost is not an issue when buying guns, your time, training, travel and ammunition will far exceed the capital cost of any gun.

(See my file (So You Wanna Shoot Bullseye?) on about page 3 in the bullseye thread. It's under the topic "Getting Started" and it's "free".

So anyway, if you want the Pardini, get a Pardini. If you want something else, get something else. Other people's opinions should not make much of a difference in what you choose to shoot. What does matter is what you feel and what helps you preform the best you possibly can.

If you don't know because you have not shot one, well then you're probably taking a shot in the dark anywy. Sometimes blind dates work out, sometimes they don't. Maybe a lot of road trips and range visits will get you some opportunities to try out the Pardini and others if you have not had the chance.

I know that's hard to believe, but look at it this way. I wouldn't let Tiger Woods choose my golf clubs for me and he certaintly will not be asking me.

Good Luck and hope to see you on the line sometime / somewhere.

Cecil


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:54 am 
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CR10XGuest wrote:
Do want comments on the Pardini, or do you want comments on purchasing a first pistol for bullseye?

If you don't own a .22 now, how do you know you will enjoy and continue the sport? So you might consider that as a percentage and total $'s, you might get more back from a used Ruger or at least not tie up as much capital.

If you don't know because you have not shot one, well then you're probably taking a shot in the dark anywy. Sometimes blind dates work out, sometimes they don't. Maybe a lot of road trips and range visits will get you some opportunities to try out the Pardini and others if you have not had the chance.


I want all comments and experiences related to the Pardini since I'm looking at it as the choice for my first .22 LR pistol and from the research that I have done and the opinions that I have read it is one of the best pistols available for bullseye shooting.

I don't own a .22 but I am certain that buying a Ruger or a Buck Mark (as I originally thought) would be a very poor investment since I would outgrow this pistol quite quickly and that would require another upgrade and more expenditures on accessories.

If there are other alternatives that I should consider outside of the Pardini SP for specific reasons that I also want that information from shooters have had the Pardini SP and maybe found something that they like better. I'm already aware of the Hammerli 208s, Benelli 95/90, Feinwerkbau AW93 pistol but the impression that I received from those owners is that they had those pistols then they switched to the Pardini SP, that is why I'm looking at the Pardini SP in the European/International style pistols instead of the other models.

One of my goals is limit the number of firearms that I own and only purchase the best-in-class ones to avoid duplication in firearm type. This is why I'm looking at the end-of-line top quality models such as the Pardini SP because I want to avoid the whole buy, upgrade, get bored/outgrow, and repeat, process since it is time consuming and expensive.

My reasoning follows that I have read regarding purchasing accurized but very expensive rifles and it basically boils down to what you wrote: "the cost of the pistol/rifle is the smallest investment that you make compared to the cost of time, ammunition, and training so it is wise to buy the best firearm that you can afford at the start since you will retain the longest value from it." There's also the cost of accessories and replacement barrels for rifles but that only partly enters the pictures into pistols until I start looking into modifications such as compensators, grips, and extra weights after I figure out what I want to have on the pistol.

I consider myself a good shooter and I am more interested in slow fire and accuracy more than shiny guns and many holes in targets. I participate in our range 480 competition (4 stages, 2 x 25-feet @ 35-seconds & 2 x 50-feet @ 45-seconds, 12-shots each stage ) and I come in as one of the top three shooters out of ~14 or so and I enjoy this competition very much. This year a new prodigy shooter has entered the competition that scored 5 perfect scores where nobody has done so in 30-years or more in that range, but that's another story.

I already purchased an accurate Les Baer 1911 Custom Concept V .45 ACP ($2.2K USD) and a Volquartsen 10/22 Semi-Auto Custom Deluxe in .22 LR ($1.2K USD) rifle that I put on a Bell & Carlson Odyssey 3-Way Adjustable Stock ($0.3K USD) and a very good quality Sightron Big Sky 6-24 x 42mm ($0.6K USD) scope for off-hand and sometimes benchrest in-door 50-foot shooting (later longer distances 100-yard outdoor).

I think that these are the best pistols in my collection and I enjoy shooting them very much because they perform like a dream when I use them. They were a great investment in my mind for the money that I paid for them and they will retain their value through the top performance that they offer me. So purchasing a less quality pistol as you mentioned is not really what I had in mind that is why I'm looking at the Pardini SP model instead of the Ruger, Buck Mark, or S&W Model 41.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:35 pm 
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JakFrost,

I mean no disrespect when I say that your mind seems to be made up and you just want us to agree that the Pardini is what you NEED. In fact it is what you want, not need. Cecil has been around this sport at the highest levels, for a long time, and had asked the right questions. You only rebutted with what you have, and why you WANT a Pardini. I think you are just interested in having the best named equipment and that is why you put all the names of your current equipment in your reply. Really most of us don't care who's gun you have, it's the score you put up that matters.

You do not seem to be shooting NRA three gun competition, which is what the "Bullseye" board is for, and you will not out outshoot a Ruger or Model 41, dare I say, EVER. Especially at 50 ft.

The national record for NRA team 22 competition is held by two Model 41's and two Ruger MKII's. The record is from 1964. That included two perfect 300's. The National record for 50 yard slowfire is from 1968, I believe Higginson used a Model 41, no matter what he used it was an American built .22.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:37 pm 
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JakFrost,

I mean no disrespect when I say that your mind seems to be made up and you just want us to agree that the Pardini is what you NEED. In fact it is what you want, not need. Cecil has been around this sport at the highest levels, for a long time, and had asked the right questions. You only rebutted with what you have, and why you WANT a Pardini. I think you are just interested in having the best named equipment and that is why you put all the names of your current equipment in your reply. Really most of us don't care who's gun you have, it's the score you put up that matters.

You do not seem to be shooting NRA three gun competition, which is what the "Bullseye" board is for, and you will not out outshoot a Ruger or Model 41, dare I say, EVER. Especially at 50 ft.

The national record for NRA team 22 competition is held by two Model 41's and two Ruger MKII's. The record is from 1964. That included two perfect 300's. The National record for 50 yard slowfire is from 1968, I believe Higginson used a Model 41, no matter what he used it was an American built .22.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:54 pm 
As I said

So anyway, if you want the Pardini, get a Pardini.

You got the quote wrong or added your words at the end as I could not find out anywhere mentioned value, but did say get the best you could afford.

I did not mention how to find out what was best for you and took the time in my response to clarify that each shooter will probably need to actually shoot a model of any considered gun to determine balance, grip, recoil characteristics, trigger position, length, sight set up, etc. For example, I never could get used to the nose heavy feel of a Hammerli 208 with a scope mount, although I shoot some pretty good scores with it.

There are not that many Pardini guns on the line at Canton and Perry. Although Randy Pafford and a few others have shot them quite well.

Sorry you didn't need the comment about trying out guns to see what actually works for you.

I hope the Pardini works well for you.

Cecil Rhodes


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:03 pm 
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One comment...you must have total confidence in your equipment. If a Pardini will give you that, it's money well spent.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:16 pm 
Oh, and Willie Trowell won the .22 Agg at Perry in 1998 or 1999? I think. He was shooiting a Pardini and Wiinchester T22 ammo.

Cecil


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:30 pm 
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RMinUT wrote:
I mean no disrespect when I say that your mind seems to be made up and you just want us to agree that the Pardini is what you NEED.

You do not seem to be shooting NRA three gun competition, which is what the "Bullseye" board is for, and you will not out outshoot a Ruger or Model 41, dare I say, EVER. Especially at 50 ft.


My mind is not at all made up about a Pardini but I am getting steered towards it from what I am reading. This pistol is neither what I want or what I need. Looking for a first .22 LR caliber pistol is a hit-and-miss affair so open to suggestions and that's why I want people's experiences with it so that I can make a better decision. I would love to hear negative feedback most of all about this gun because then my decision would be made so much easier. Reading a lot of research and hearing dozens of "this is a good gun" posts is fairly useless until you come across the gems where people open up with their negative feedback.

I already tried the Ruger Mk II and I am not a fan of it, I tried the Buck Mark only to find out that I do not like the trigger on it and even if I did the work myself to do the Heggins Trigger Job (spring flip) and polish the sear/hammer engagement the gun would still not perform up to par. I also don't see many people sporting the Buck Marks for competitions. I was dead set on a Buck Mark as a started pistol but after more research and speaking to people who have had experience with them my mind was changed and I decided against it. The same can happen with the Pardini if I hear enough about it.

I tried a famous S&W Model 41 a few times and last weekend when tried it at the range I liked it, except that it had a FTF twice including a stove-pipe with ammo that the gun liked. Many people feel that the S&W Model 41 will a wonderful pistol as long as you take the time to find the ammo that it likes. However there is a lot of nationalistic chest beating when I mention anything of European make when it comes to bullseye pistol equipment and people just go crazy that I don't just hand my money over to S&W for this gun right now. I even had a moderator remove posts by a poster in the previous thread who was championing his S&W Model 41 as the ultimate gun in the world ignoring the topic of that thread. I don't like this attitude of users who champion the M41.

Everyone that I talk to at my range urges me to get the S&W Model 41 and forget about my research. I am not easily pushed towards a direction that is why I'm doing this research. Additionally the two S&W Model 41s that I tried, one's slide cracked after normal and ordinary usage by a friend at the range who takes really good care of his guns and babies them. The other M41 has a very noticeable skew in the slide, barrel, and frame positioning putting some doubt about this pistol. Various people have posted pictures of the groups they shoot with various ammo and the M41 is mostly all over the place except for one type of ammo that the user finds that actually works reliably and accurately. All this information might be just the worst-of-the-worst experiences that are being posted but the amount of it that I've read isn't painting a rosy picture for me here.

I understand that many bullseye championship shooters do phenomenally well with the Ruger or S&W Model 41 and that these guns will outperform me but while this might be so I am still looking for an alternatives such as the Pardini I'm asking about in this thread.

As for posting the information on the guns that I own it was not for show but as a response to Cecil since he seemed to be under the impression that I'm buying pistols for their name value alone and not the qualities of the firearms. The 1911 and the .22 LR rifle were purchased after a lot of research, the same type that I'm doing here, and after I found what people recommended and after I avoided the things that people mentioned they had problems with. Les Baer came up on top as the most affordable custom pistol maker for 1911 frames for my needs at the time, local range competition. I am very happy with this gun and I enjoy it very much as I mentioned. I'm sure that others who have various other Colts, Sprinfields, Willsons, STI's, Night Hawks like theirs also.

Volquartsen came up after I did my research for a very accurate .22 LR caliber rifle that was semi-automatic, one reason why I didn't choose a Anschultz style rifle that might be more accurate.

CR10XGuest wrote:

So anyway, if you want the Pardini, get a Pardini.

You got the quote wrong or added your words at the end as I could not find out anywhere mentioned value, but did say get the best you could afford.

I did not mention how to find out what was best for you and took the time in my response to clarify that each shooter will probably need to actually shoot a model of any considered gun to determine balance, grip, recoil characteristics, trigger position, length, sight set up, etc. For example, I never could get used to the nose heavy feel of a Hammerli 208 with a scope mount, although I shoot some pretty good scores with it.

There are not that many Pardini guns on the line at Canton and Perry. Although Randy Pafford and a few others have shot them quite well.

Sorry you didn't need the comment about trying out guns to see what actually works for you.

I hope the Pardini works well for you.

Cecil Rhodes


I don't want a Pardini, I want information from people who have experiences with the pistol and who can tell me if their experience was good and they recommend it to me or to stay away from it like the plague because of one reason or another. I appreciate honest negative feedback more than generic positive posts.

The quote I was paraphrasing. I'm sure that it has been mentioned by many people throughout the years but it's one of those ideas that stuck in my head about buying the best gun you can afford. It makes sense for me even while I'm going for the paradoxical idea of buying an expensive gun to save money on shooting .22 LR caliber.

The relative unpopularity of the Pardini is not so important to me because I'm not trying to follow a trend here, since if I was I would have not bothered and just bought a M41 a week ago and called it quits. I didn't so I'm here now still weighing my options.

Ah see! That comment you made about the Hammerli 208s is quite valuable to me. That one single line is what I look for when I read people's posts and threads and I remember these honest and negative little things that they write down and note. You are not the first person to mention the little issue on the Hammerli 208s balance. I take all the information I read and aggregate together, after enough information certain things begin to bubble up to the top and I can form an opinion based on people's comments and experiences and in this case the Hammerli 208s balance issue comes to the top. That is what I look for.

I really have no choice about being able to try guns and then deciding on what I like because where I shoot the choices are quite limited and I've already tried almost all the guns that I could. I have to take a shot in the dark here but at least I'm trying to do my research so I know what to expect because I dive in head first.

I had the same dilemma when I was choosing the scope for the .22 LR rifle and I ended up purchasing a scope that I did not have a chance of looking through because the ones that I did look through did not satisfy me. In the scope turned out exactly as expected and just like I wanted because the research told me what to expect.

So I'm still reading and doing research about the Pardini SP and at the same time I'm trying to decide if this will be my first pistol.

I won't really know if this is the pistol that has the right grip, balance, trigger, sights, and other aspects that are good for me but that is something that I will only be able to tell after a lot of time behind the trigger of this gun. I'm just hoping to jump ahead of the curve and start with a gun on which I can grow and learn without dealing with upgrading and replacement.

Whether that gun turns out to be the Pardini SP or the highly recommended S&W Model 41, I can't tell at this point.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:18 pm 
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In his comments Cecil alluded to the fact that some BE shooters select a 22 on the basis of how closely it matches the feel of their 45 pistol. Of the various guns you have mentioned, you have not included any of the 22 conversion units - Kart, Marvel, Dworak, etc. Many shooters use these conversions on a dedicated 45 frame so that they are shooting very similar guns in all three matches. The issue is - how does the choice of your 22 pistol effect your total match score, not simply your 22 match score. In a similar vein, you could think about shooting your 22 and CF matches with Pardinis (it comes in both 22 and 32).

BTW, both the Army and Marine shooters are now using FWB AW93's.

As for comments on the Pardini - it is an excellent pistol, but I find the grip, trigger and balance very different from a 45. I prefer a gun with a more upright grip for Bullseye.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:42 pm 
While I see your point a little more clearly now I will say that you are not clear in your intentions.
I have a Pardini, and I think it's great, for international events only. It is too different than a 1911 FOR ME to shoot in NRA conventional events because I have to follow the 22 with CF and then 45. I shoot a High Standard or Marvel conversion for NRA. I personally think new shooters trying to improve overall should get a Marvel or Kart and put the money saved into ammo.
I have owned a 208 and thought it was perfect for NRA shooting. I matched a personal best the first time I shot it. I met a guy who would cuss you out for even metioning Pardini in the same category as a 208, some people like them that much.
I personally don't like Model 41's but some swear by them and there are many records held by them.

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT YOUR GOALS ARE AND WHAT EVENTS YOU SHOOT.

The point I rambling about is you do not seem to be a three gun shooter but are asking for opinions from us. Whatever you buy now you will probably change because your abilities will change. If you stick with the sport long enough.
I challenge you to read Cecil's article and then attend a NRA match or USA shooting match. This 480 thing you talk about is something you don't need a Pardini or Hammerli for. You are better off getting a $400 Ruger or Marvel and $1000 in ammo, to use your price info.
Or just buy the gun that this prodigy you mention shoots, I bet he's no prodigy. He's probably just practiced..

Cheers,
Robert


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:51 pm 
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While I was replying as a guest, I forgot to log in, Fred beat me to the punch about 22 conversions. Is it mere random coincidence or just that people who have done this a while seem to see things alike?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:23 pm 
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RMinUT wrote:
While I see your point a little more clearly now I will say that you are not clear in your intentions.

The point I rambling about is you do not seem to be a three gun shooter but are asking for opinions from us. Whatever you buy now you will probably change because your abilities will change. If you stick with the sport long enough.

I challenge you to read Cecil's article and then attend a NRA match or USA shooting match. This 480 thing you talk about is something you don't need a Pardini or Hammerli for. You are better off getting a $400 Ruger or Marvel and $1000 in ammo, to use your price info.
Or just buy the gun that this prodigy you mention shoots, I bet he's no prodigy. He's probably just practiced..


Yes, I'm absolutely unclear in my intentions because I'm trying to buy a first pistol in this caliber and I have no idea what kind of competitions I should be focusing towards. I'm trying to choose a .22 LR pistol based on what the top shooters would use so that I can practice on that single platform and learn it. Once I learn it then I'll figure out if I'm good enough to enter competitions or not.

My experiences with the S&W Model 41 have been good but with the FTF issues that I experienced first hand and the issues that the owners have I want to avoid that gun and choose something that is a bit better.

I don't compete right now on any serious level, except for the local small range competition that we have here twice a year and only get about 10-15 shooters entering total and this is a timed accuracy competition for centerfire and most people end up with a S&W 686 6" with a Red Dot sight. I use the same setup as everyone else and I do well enough to get one of the top 3 scores.

On a side note since you mentioned it, the prodigy shooter that I mentioned also shoots the same gun except his is a performance center model weighted barrel with a better quality Aimpoint Red Dot sight and a smaller 2 MOA dot. I shot his gun and I see how it offers a bit more improvement over the standard barrel weight one that I use and the huge 5 MOA dot on my sight makes things easier for him but it is not the gun that makes him a prodigy. He just started shooting 6-months ago and his first entry into our competition he scored 3x478 then 5x480 (perfect with a max of 42-bullseyes) and 2x479 for a perfect 480 average. He has a very steady hand and his accuracy is uncanny. He is just a natural shooter and it is his performance and skill that set him as a prodigy not his equipment. Before him nobody in the history of the range that is now owned by a second generation owner (30 or more years) has every gotten a score of 479 or higher and on his first try he hit 5x480 perfect scores and never dipped below a score of 478 which is what I was able to do only once and three other people have also done in the entire history of the range running this competition 2x a year. I think that this kind of a new kid on the block wins the competition with perfect scores sets this shooter up to be a prodigy. I have recommended to him to start looking into serious regional competitions so that he can prepare for national competitions since he certainly has the skills to go pro. I offered to go and shoot some regional competitions with him next year to see how he'll fair mostly because I just want to see him shoot against shooters that are at his level at other ranges, I'll just tag along to keep him company and shoot too since I'll be there, but I'll be keeping my eye on his scores to see how he does against other great shooters like himself.

Coming back to the old topic, the range only had one previous .22 LR history with the current line of shooters since the restarted .22 LR shoots last year. Most of the shooters who are my friends shoot the M41 with red dot sights and they do well in the competition. Unfortunatelly, since I did not own any pistols in that caliber and I was out of the country on that day I was not able to compete with them. They are planning another shoot for last day of January so I'm trying to get one before than so I can shoot with them.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:06 pm 
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This thread has really gone down hill in a hurry. If you can afford a decent gun, why not buy it? High end guns like the Pardini and the Feinwerkbau are like race cars: fully adjustable and designed specifically to the task at hand.

If you plunk down the cash for a new Pardini, you'll get your choice of grip sizes and styles in either right or left hand, a trigger that can accommodate long skinny fingers as well as short fat ones, and the ability to change the weight in the nose as well as a recoil absorber to fool with. Your chance of properly fitting this gun to your hand is certainly better than getting a model 41 with it's fixed trigger and hopping your fingers are long enough to reach.

Don't get me wrong, I think the model 41 is a great gun, and mine's not for sale, but for some people it will just never fit. The Pardini is simply far more adaptable. It's also one of the easiest guns to put a dot on without adding a lot of weight. There's not a lot of down side.

Personally, I'd spring for the Pardini, it's probably got the best resale going. If you can't unload it, send me a note, I know of at least one shooter who will take it off your hands.

Sincerely,
Steve.

P.S. Sorry for going open loop, but it's been a tough day at the mall...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:19 pm 
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JakFrost wrote:
Yes, I'm absolutely unclear in my intentions because I'm trying to buy a first pistol in this caliber and I have no idea what kind of competitions I should be focusing towards. I'm trying to choose a .22 LR pistol based on what the top shooters would use so that I can practice on that single platform and learn it. Once I learn it then I'll figure out if I'm good enough to enter competitions or not.


I don't agree with that approach. Best to have a mix of training/practicing and competitions. I don't know what it means 'to be good enough to enter'. All the NRA and USAS matches have the shooters classed by shooting ability. As you progress you move up so you continue to compete with people of similar abilities. If you are fearful of entering competitions until you are good enough, then perhaps you should either consider another sport, or purchase a plinker for plinking.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:52 pm 
As I close another year of trying to learn to shoot bullseye, I will leave you with this observation.

First, over the past few years of watching shooters enter the sport of conventional pistol (and international) shooting. I have noticed that there is a tendency to either (1) start off with the cheapest and least expensive approach with equipment and ammo that is not quite appropriate to the task at hand or (2) endlessly search for the perfect gun, perfect grip, perfect ammo, etc. and discussing the gory details of the pro and cons of each. Both of these methods seem to have a lot of followers.

On the other hand, the military teams just seem to issue the guns and ammo and the shooters work on training.

Secondly, none of the top shootersI know of have choosen guns based on what others told them, without actually shooting and trying them out extensively. However, being given a gun may influence some people's choices. And there does not seem to be a total concensus on the best gun anyway among the Masters and High Masters.

So, finally, my apologies for simply trying to say that if shooters choose equipment based on internet "fact", "polls, "who's shooting what" or even "recommendations" from supported shooters, I personally do not think that is best path to better performance, but please feel free to pursue that route.

I wish you the best and hope you will join us in the best sport anywhere.

Please contine with your process to determine what you wish to purchase. As I said, I think it will be a good choice for you.

Merry Christmas to you all. Hope to see you all at Perry next year.

Now, off to the family Christmas with all the taxed and untaxed liquor you can load into the back of chevy pickup. Fireworks, live performances of all types of music, presents and kids of all ages will be there. I expect the local law enforcement to be here before midnight, they tend to show up every year anyway. (And tend to join in after their shifts are over.

Merry Christmas from North Carolina.

Cecil


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Fred Mannis wrote:
Best to have a mix of training/practicing and competitions. I don't know what it means 'to be good enough to enter'. All the NRA and USAS matches have the shooters classed by shooting ability. As you progress you move up so you continue to compete with people of similar abilities. If you are fearful of entering competitions until you are good enough, then perhaps you should either consider another sport, or purchase a plinker for plinking.


Oh, I didn't mean to say that I won't enter competitions it is just that I'll at least learn to shoot whatever pistol I end up with before I decide to enter. I'll at the very minimum do the NRA Bullseye Pistol Course of Fire and complete the Distinguished Expert level before I decide to face a real competition so that I'll be familiar with the firearm and learn how to shoot it.

When I got my .22 rifle I did the NRA Light Rifle Course of Fire to learn to shoot and I achieved the nerfed Distinguished Expert level at the reduced 91 point level and I'll be continuing to practice and learn to reach the classic Distinguished Expert level of 95 points after my rifle comes back from a chamber lengthening to allow CCI Mini-Mags to work more reliably in that Volquartsen rifle.

I think that the only way that I'll join a competition outside of our local range for the first time will be if some of my friends from my local range decide to get together and go. I'm thinking that once Spring rolls around I'll look around for something up there in the North East and get the guys together to go out and compete. It would be fun to see what the world is like outside of our city. The only thing that is really standing in the way is getting these guys to move and get their out-of-state Florida and/or Pennsylvania permits so that they have a valid reason to leave this city with their firearms without breaking a bunch of licensing laws that prohibit removal from residence.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:24 pm
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CR10XGuest wrote:
First, over the past few years of watching shooters enter the sport of conventional pistol (and international) shooting. I have noticed that there is a tendency to either (1) start off with the cheapest and least expensive approach with equipment and ammo that is not quite appropriate to the task at hand or (2) endlessly search for the perfect gun, perfect grip, perfect ammo, etc. and discussing the gory details of the pro and cons of each. Both of these methods seem to have a lot of followers.

On the other hand, the military teams just seem to issue the guns and ammo and the shooters work on training.

Secondly, none of the top shootersI know of have choosen guns based on what others told them, without actually shooting and trying them out extensively. However, being given a gun may influence some people's choices. And there does not seem to be a total concensus on the best gun anyway among the Masters and High Masters.

So, finally, my apologies for simply trying to say that if shooters choose equipment based on internet "fact", "polls, "who's shooting what" or even "recommendations" from supported shooters, I personally do not think that is best path to better performance, but please feel free to pursue that route.

I wish you the best and hope you will join us in the best sport anywhere.

Please contine with your process to determine what you wish to purchase. As I said, I think it will be a good choice for you.


I wish that the process of choosing the first pistol would be easy and it could be if I just listen to what other people tell me and follow their recommendations. But that is never the case and I don't really know what I want until I get something and decide if it will be good or not. I'm sure that after shooting whatever pistol I end up with I'll know a lot more about what I want for the next model.

That happened to me when I was buying my first pistol, I had Choice Freeze and I couldn't decide on a pistol make or caliber. I ended up with a Glock 22 in .40 S&W. The caliber was the right choice but the pistol was the wrong choice and I didn't realize it until 3-years later after I purchased my second full-size semi-auto in .40 S&W which was the Sig Sauer P226 Elite and tried how good and right it was. Now my Glock is relegated to house guarding duty and I hardly even touch it anymore since I don't want to sell it because I would lose more than 50% of the original purchase value on it and because I've learned to shoot it and I know it in-and-out. If I had to make a choice for my first pistol it would not have been a Glock now that the spiked KoolAid from GlockTalk forum has worn off. Live and learn...

That's going to be the same story with the Pardini but this time I'm hoping to bend the rules and turn the corner earlier and invest in a top-quality pistol with a good track record of making its owners happy. If the Pardini won't be the one for me then I'll go off looking again sometime in the future for something else. There's nothing I can do but jump in head first based on other people's experiences with the Pardini since I can't try it myself. I did that with my Sightron scope and I was very happy, let's hope that this will be 2-0.

I'm sure that my decision would be made a lot easier if I could just try it and compare it to my experiences with the S&W Model 41, Buck Mark, and Ruger that I tried but I can't since nobody here has one or even heard of one (except one person and he got mad at me last time I talked to him about this topic and I haven't had a chance to get his complete side of the picture).

I'll have to make my decision before this Saturday when I visit my range again and start the paperwork process.

Happy Holidays and have a Great New Year everyone!


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