single stage trigger and safety

[coolcruiser]

Most newer rifles can be adjusted to allow their trigger to run single stage or two stage. Reading of the advantages of single stage in "Ways of the Rifle" I am attracted to the simplicity of running a trigger this way. But I am concerned about the safety of a single stage setup. There simply is not very much sear holding back the release of the hammer. My gunsmith skills are adequate to understand the structure of these triggers but I certainly don't know it all so I wonder what others in the fraternity think. ?? Probably there are some of us that don't give it a thought other than to tune the trigger to our liking and shoot. Most of the time that is OK, however, there is a potential problem. It is possible to tune the trigger at the very limits of the sear inviting an accidental discharge if the rifle is bumped or the bolt closed a bit harshly. If we were to add some sear to prevent this then it takes away from the advantage of the single stage! I have had this happen and it caused me to search for a solution which I found in the two stage trigger. The advantage of the two stage for most triggers is that the take up of the first stage is all added sear engagement . The second stage can be then as fine as the shooter wants it to be with no worrys about the bolt motion jarring the sear .
There is no joy in shooting a gun that has an unpredictable trigger and the inadvertant release of any shot is a cause for concern. There is room for both opinion and science on this...any thoughts?

[jrmcdaniel]

IMHO, safety and number of stages are completely separate. As far as safety, the gun should never dischage as a result of normal (which includes a few bumps) handling. When loaded, a gun should always be pointed downrange. The trigger guard must remain empty until you are ready to take the shot (no finger anywhere around the trigger).

There are some who like a very light trigger -- personally, I like a heavier trigger for better feel in, especially, offhand shots.

Most shooting sports have trigger weight rules -- ISSF 10M pistol, for instance, dictates at least 500gms. I would typically set my trigger to about 550gms -- I do not like having to worry about whether my trigger is legal at checkin before a match, and I never have to adjust my trigger at the last moment. Again, IMHO, the feel of the trigger is far more important than the weight -- my M1 Garand has something like 6# but breaks "like a glass rod."

Best,

Joe

[corning]

IMHO, safety and number of stages are completely separate.

Again, IMHO, the feel of the trigger is far more important than the weight --

I agree 100%. I only have single stage triggers on the rifles I shoot. My Palma rifle is 1.5 kg, single stage. I shot some smallbore this fall, and raised the trigger weight on the rifle (again, single stage) as it felt more comfortable heavier.

I think you can experience the same "problems" with a double stage trigger that you are worried about with single stage trigger if you have it set too light. I have found that too light a trigger is more susceptible to grit, dust and oil, which will make it very unpredictable, whether single or double stage.

[Spencer]

provided the safety rules are followed, an AD should be more a matter of inconvenience (and embarassment) rather than any safety problem. The pistol or rifle is directed downrange (ALWAYS!).

on the original question - there are a lot of shooters using single stage triggers without problems.

Spencer

[coolcruiser]

Thanks to those that have "weighed in" on this topic. To summarize we have some comments that advocate a heavy enough trigger to help avoid the problems of a light sear. We also would all agree that an AD causes no practical problem if the three NRA rules of the range are adhered to. (finger off the trigger until ready to shoot, gun unloaded until ready to fire, muzzle pointed in safe direction). What is missing thus far is commentary regarding the reality of those that choose to run a trigger down in the 4-8 oz range, single or two stage. My personal example of an inadvertant firing took place with a Win52 type trigger set at 8 oz. The round fired while I was in prone position and firing off a bench through a firing port indoors. The rifle barrel 'bumped' the side of the port very lightly and it was enough to release the shot. No harm, barrel pointed downrange, no finger on the trigger...scored as a miss in competition. Not particularly embarrassing other than the fact that I normally clean prone so it cost me ten points in this match. My analysis of the cause was that the bolt had enough clearance for cycling that it affected the reliability of the trigger...when bumped. Bumping was not a normal occurance as us precision shooters tend to be fairly careful with our gear, right? Anyway, I opted to go with a two stage on my next rifle to avoid this problem and I have been very happy to run my FWB around 6 oz, two stage...until I read the advice in the WOTR book to consider a single stage as a better choice. What say ye all?....light trigger and single stage=minimal sear?....minimal sear is "less secure", right?

[FredM]

I don't know much about about rifles and rifle triggers, but the trigger on my free pistol is single stage and set at about 3 oz. It is quite safe as it is a set trigger, although I haven't 'bumped' a loaded gun with the trigger unset to see if it will fire. There are separate adjustments for weight and sear engagement. Do any of your target rifles use a set trigger?

[coolcruiser]

Fred you make a good point in bringing up set triggers. To answer your question, no set triggers on any of my rifles although my mentor in precision shooting used one on his Anschutz, so they were once more common. My black powder rifle is equipped with a set trigger. The idea there is exactly to the point. A set trigger seems very much like a two stage in that the gun is prepared to fire before 'setting' the trigger...once the trigger is set, then the final act of firing is done without manipulating anything on the gun other than the trigger. This allows for the trigger to be very light like your 3 oz...that is truly a very light trigger! You also point out that 'bumping' the gun is not a common thing that we would do at this point; however, my example above illustrates what might happen if there is enough internal movement available inside the gun. I am of the opinion that the newer precision single stage figures are as reliable as they are due to better metalurgy and tighter tolerances due to computer controlled precision manufacturing.

[jholtman]

I have used a single stage trigger on both my Anschutz air rifle(2002ca) and Anschutz free rifle (1913) for several years and have NEVER had an AD due to single stage adjustment. Both are set to 100gr (3.5oz). I changed from 2 stage to single as I had occational problems of pulling through the first stage causing an AD resulting in a less than desirable score on that shot. Anschutz offers all their match grade rifles in either 1 or 2 stage, both adjusted down to 100gr. A properly adjusted trigger in either style is safe and dependable. If you set the sear engagement on any trigger too shallow you will compromise performance as well as safety. The decision on 1 or 2 stage is just a matter of personal choice.