Moment of Truth: Last 200 ms (sights or trigger?)

[2650 Plus]

For Steve, We may have a bit of confusion about how the trigger is manipulated. I never plan for a consious firing of the p[istol. [ I cant bring myself to refer to steadly increasing presure as a release] I avoid that trap by concentrating on sight allignment until the trigger finger fires the pistol. I don't care when that occurs just as long as it happens while my hold is satisfactory and my concentration is solid [ Like you discribe your own] Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Ed Hall]

(I am reminded of a world class international shooter who spoke at a USAF pistol team camp a few years back- Mel Makin? Steve Ryder? Arnie Vitarbo? Ruby Fox? [Ed Hall, do you remember the story?] who spoke of the new AMU team captain...

Sorry Steve,

That must have been after I left the Team. While I was with the Team we had sessions with Meidinger, Reiter and Blankenship. Meidinger highlighted his use of dot sights and racing the dot to the center before the shot went off, Reiter suggested not shooting bad shots and Blankenship spoke of "knowing the shot was going to happen" and making sure the sights were aligned before it did. Do you remember, "It's going to fire, come hell or high water!"?

Blankenship also spoke of something else that might fall in a little here. He suggested, (and I somewhat subscribe to this thought process), that if you truly watch and understand your settle, you can tell what your shot will be before you fire it. IOW, watch your settle - if it settles in the way tens settle, fire - if it doesn't settle that way, start over.

I've come to believe that settle is based on something else within your attitude. If you KNOW it will be a ten, it will be a ten. And, all the settle and process will fall into place. If you question if it will be a ten, it will be somewhere(?) As such, I believe that your attitude toward the shot is a bigger factor than many will admit. Confidence breeds success. Wondering how you'll do will help fill out the also-ran ranks. Most of the winners come from those that are "there to win."

Back to steve's post for a moment:

I am beginning to believe that perhaps there is such a thing as a "high performing conscious release" shooting style.

Of course, in order to make that work, you must have a very tight (and stable, and consistent) hold.

They may be describing a very determined trigger operation that settles their hold as it unfolds. That could very well take on the apearance of a conscious process. Would this fall under your trigger driven sight alignment scenario?

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

[2650 Plus]

Ed just touched on something that I consider of criticle importance to the outcome of the shot. Remember Hershel Anderson s comment about taking a month off to remove every negative aspect from his shooting performance? I also subscribe to the same concept. I think the possibility of firing a bad shoot is most likely to occur any time you fire two tens in a row unless you have convinced yourself that three tens in a row are not only possible but are to be expected as routine .Through confidence building thought processes you should train to expect a higher performance level than you had last week. Or in previous training sessions. Any ideas on how to accomplish this remarkable task? Good Shootiing Bill Horton

[scerir]

Through confidence building thought processes you should train to expect a higher performance level than you had last week. Or in previous training sessions. Any ideas on how to accomplish this remarkable task?

http://homepage.mac.com/aep/Seishinkan/ ... ssary.html

In the art of archery that extreme 'confidence' (as far as I remember) is called 'Kakushin no hirameki', but I didn't find this expression in the Kyudo glossary above. It would mean something like 'flash of confidence' or 'lightning-confidence'. In the art of archery that 'confidence' isn't achieved easily, but through a long and deep mental process.

Btw, in the glossary above I've found other interesting terms, like 'Yagoro' which is the instant immediately before the actual release, where tsumeai and nobiai have reached their balanced fulfillment, following which the release must naturally occur! Or like 'Zaiteki',
literally, 'the arrow exists in the target'. This refers to the highest level of shooting expertise, where the archer's shooting is so perfect in all respects that the arrow cannot possibly miss. Since this is so, it is considered that the arrow exists in the target prior to the release!

[Albert B.]

I find much recognition in the way funtoz describes the aiming and trigger sequence. Beeing an air- and smallbore shooter I have experienced that taking the stance and creating a good hold are a conscious action. When the NPA seems perfect, the natural wobble of the body becomes less and less and the front sight is centered on the target and is slowly dancing round it I have the sensation as if - in the last split second before the shot (aprox. 1 or 2 tenth of a second) - it seems as if the conscious part of the mind hands the controls over to the unconscious part . At the same time this phenomina happens, the image of the sight picture becomes more blurred as if the whole body 'ceases to try to control anything' and all actions switch to 'automatic pilot'. When that happends most shots are good 10's and a conscious abortion of firing the shot feels impossible - it' feels like beeing an other person observing through the eyes of the shooter, but not perticipating.
Does this sounds familiar to anyone?

Albert B.
(The Netherlands)

[2650 Plus]

Steves last post mentioned a very fine lady High Power rifle shooter that I had the pleasure of competing against several times. Alice Bull could hold her own with most of our best high power shooters and it was a pleasure to compete against her. I have heard that she started the story about artificial support because she really enjoyed picking on NRA Referees. Steve, bact to the title, It still sounds too much like a jerk to me .Please keep discusing the concept. Maybe I'll Understand it tomorrow. Col Charles Askins once decided that he should try to execute a controled jerk as his basic technique, and he reported disasterous results. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Steve Swartz]

Bill:

Maybe we should just give up.

Bill Says: "Hold the Gun Still" and Steve thinks "The Gun Doesn't Move."

Steve Says: "Subconscious Release of Perfect Trigger Control" and Bill thinks "Jerk the Trigger."

Steve Swartz

[2650 Plus]

Steve , I dont loose discussions by being missquoted. Never have I said finger moves sights. I say neither is a correct discription of good trigger manipulation. I also dont say Jerk the trigger. I say apply a smoothe steadily increasing pressure until the pistol fires in a supprise shot without disturbing the stillness of the pistol or the perfection af sight allignment. Set up straw men all you want .I will continue to knock them down. Its far more productive to concentrate on shooting issues.Can you control the technique you are trying to use and stay in the ten ring?Gunnery Sergeant zins can, Russ can . The current BE national champion can. Shall I go on? Stick to shooting Bill Horton

[PETE S]

I try to use the dynamic approach presented in the Scatt article. Some are probably using it without knowing it. Most others, I suspect as myself, were trained in the classic approach.

My explanation:

The intent of the classic approach is to hold the weapon steady in the aiming zone for some period of time usually 4 to a max of 10 seconds. The weapon is supposed to be stable during this time period and the shot fired. As long as I perceive the weapon is becoming steady and the motion is in the proper aiming area, I shoot.
In theory, the wobble/instability/motion on the target will decease with training. Hence improving hold is of some importance.
Firing the shot is not a conscious TAKE IT NOW BECAUSE IT IS IN THE CENTER!!! visual response which leads to a jerking action. But rather a trained, smooth increase in trigger pressure that causes the weapon to fire (the time it takes to increase the trigger pressure could be debated). The shooter aborts if not in the correct aiming area etc.

The dynamic method for me starts with the weapon above the target. I set my alignment etc... For me in particular, I have to force my attention to an exact alignment and locking the wrist, my eye sight and brain on that exact alignment. I then slowly lower the weapon to a sub-six aiming area without really looking at the target. All my effort goes into maintaining that alignment. I come to a definite but short hold or stop. The weapon fires as I remain focused the alignment. If I perceive I am not in the generally aiming area etc, I abort. Too many aborts means something is wrong physically someplace or that I am beginning to look the target.

One key difference I find is that when I am reverting to the classic method, not only is hold longer, but I have a tendency to wait for something to improve, possibly alignment or position on the down range target. When using the dynamic method, everything is correct as the weapon lowers into position.

Why did I start to try this method? One was reading the discretion. Second, I sat and listened to one of the better USAS members describe the shooting process to a junior as: align your sights, lower the pistol into the aiming area and be ready to fire within one to two seconds of reaching the aiming area.

[Steve Swartz]

"PLONK" as they say

Sheesh.

Steve Swartz

[scerir]

... lower the pistol into the aiming area and be ready to fire within one to two seconds of reaching the aiming area.

Did you realize that as long as the pistol moves (reaching the aiming area) there is no wobble at all? So, if you are able to keep the sights aligned and to fire the shot within (say) 1 second, you avoid wobble, tremble, whatever else. As far as I remember you can also avoid the wobble if you use a 'fast-pulsating' (Globish yes) technique to pull/controll the trigger (this technique can be made subcon.....).