"New" Avanti Precision Diopter sight???

[jhmartin]

Has anyone yet used the "El Gamo" style "precision" sight from Daisy yet?

I ordered a few for some of our 888's and am very disappointed.

While trying to get an idea of the # of clicks per ring I finally got the silly thing zeroed, but I can move either the elevation or windage knobs up to 4 clicks and still put the shots in the same hole. One more click and it jumps 2-1/2 to three rings.

Basically these are going back unless someone knows of a way to remove the backlash.....

My USAS contact tells me to send them back and buy the rear sights from Crosman as they are the "real" Spanish made sights and not Chinese look-alikes......

[Jay V]

Has anyone yet used the "El Gamo" style "precision" sight from Daisy yet?

I ordered a few for some of our 888's and am very disappointed.

While trying to get an idea of the # of clicks per ring I finally got the silly thing zeroed, but I can move either the elevation or windage knobs up to 4 clicks and still put the shots in the same hole. One more click and it jumps 2-1/2 to three rings.

Basically these are going back unless someone knows of a way to remove the backlash.....

My USAS contact tells me to send them back and buy the rear sights from Crosman as they are the "real" Spanish made sights and not Chinese look-alikes......

I haven't seen one, but heard they were junk.

It looks like Daisy is trying to reduce their costs on some things (training pellets, sights) by going to low quality Chinese-made items.


Jay V
IL
www.aiac-airguns.org

[mikeschroeder]

Hi

The Gamos are all we have on our 888's now. We haven't gotten but 1 new one in about a year, but the ones we have all seem O.K. They're not Anschutz, but then who is.....

Mike
Wichita KS

[Waltonshooter]

I dont have any experience with a bunch of rifles, but as an individual shooter (I own an XS40), the new Daisy sights leave alot to be desired. They have slop and play in them, and i've sent them back 4 times before finally giving up and just shooting with what I have on it. I'm still not happy with it though. Jhmartin- tell me more about this crosman sight? Would it be legal for NRA competition or not?, being a non OEM part I presume?

I've found that I can bend the metal track that the sights sit on, to a point, but then it will bind. It's just an inferior product :-/

Ryan

[jhmartin]

Any sight which is manufactured for a sporter can be used on a different sporter rifle. The Crosman sight is a "El Gamo" sight. It looks to almost identical to the "old" Gamo which came with the older 753's and such.

We placed all three side by side yesterday. Some observations.

1) Old style Gamo: Solid and rugged. "Gamo" cast into the top of the sight base. Heavy gauge stamped metal sight shell. A look at the bottom base of the sight assembly and you will see the two pins and TWO retainer clips on the pins

2) Crosman Gamo: Not quite as rugged. No "Gamo" on the casting, but there is a "Made in Spain" sticker on the bottom. Thinner gauge metal shell. Two retainer clips on the pins.

3) New Avanti "Precision" sight. It actually looks like a cheaper version of the Crosman Gamo. Much slop in the diopter iris, very thin shell ... a very clean looking cast base that almost looks plastic. Clip to hold the sight on the sight rail is very "floppy" and does not travel with the set screw (This makes for a very non-repeatable mount). Only one of the bottom pins has a retaining ring.

Here is the rule:
[size=18][b]4.2.8 Sights[/b][/size]
Only sights manufactured for and sold with Sporter air rifles are permitted. Sights not manufactured specifically for an approved Sporter air rifle (see Rule 4.2.8) are not permitted. Sights for the Daisy M753 air rifle (El Gamo) may be used on a M853/953/M888 air rifle. Riser blocks manufactured for the initial series of Daisy XSV40 air rifles may be used with the front and rear sights of those rifles, however, any XSV40 air rifle sold in 2003 or later that has a serial number with the letter “X” may not be used with riser blocks. Riser blocks may not be used on any other sporter air rifles. Any nonadjustable interchangeable front sight apertures or inserts may be used in approved Sporter air rifle front sights. An adjustable iris or adjustable aperture may not be used in the front or rear sight. No part of the front sight may extend beyond the apparent end of the barrel or barrel weight. A longer barrel or barrel weight may not be used to extend the sight radius beyond the original sight radius of
the rifle as provided by the manufacturer. Corrective lenses may be worn by the competitor, but may not be placed in the sights. Telescopic sight systems, sights with corrective lenses, light filters or spirit levels are not permitted.

[jhmartin]

Well, from what I can gather, Daisy is looking into the Avanti sight and what can be done for it. I doubt anything will happen anytime soon.

I'm sending ours back to Daisy for refunds. La Cueva High School MCJROTC already did this at the beginning of May.

George Brenzovich here in the southwest is ordering some real Spanish Gamo Diopters and getting them sent in and then out to us. Anyone wishing to add on to the current order should contact George at brenzovich.com by Wed 6/8

It really is a shame as these sights are $80 compared to the $35 for the Avanti's. (Even if you went to Gamo's spanish website they are about $75 when you factor in the Euro to USD conversion.)

Inflation is with us, and is only going to continue. I think that the National council had better recognize that by putting a hard dollar limit on sporters they run the risk of only having sub-par equipment in the future. If there is a limit it should be continually adjusted to track inflation.

[kelly]

If you want to keep costs down then you will have to accept less precision. You just can have high precision and low cost. Lets get real here. If sporter is going to remain affordable then accept less precision, if not then don't complain over the cost.

Daisy can build a repeatable sight, but perhaps not at a low enough cost.

Personally I think if you are going to demand more precision then you should shift into Precision and leave Sporter affordable. It hinges on what the goal is for having Sporter in the first place.

Is anything wrong with Crosmans Sporter rifle?

Well, from what I can gather, Daisy is looking into the Avanti sight and what can be done for it. I doubt anything will happen anytime soon.

I'm sending ours back to Daisy for refunds. La Cueva High School MCJROTC already did this at the beginning of May.

George Brenzovich here in the southwest is ordering some real Spanish Gamo Diopters and getting them sent in and then out to us. Anyone wishing to add on to the current order should contact George at brenzovich.com by Wed 6/8

It really is a shame as these sights are $80 compared to the $35 for the Avanti's. (Even if you went to Gamo's spanish website they are about $75 when you factor in the Euro to USD conversion.)

Inflation is with us, and is only going to continue. I think that the National council had better recognize that by putting a hard dollar limit on sporters they run the risk of only having sub-par equipment in the future. If there is a limit it should be continually adjusted to track inflation.

[mikeschroeder]

.....
Personally I think if you are going to demand more precision then you should shift into Precision and leave Sporter affordable. It hinges on what the goal is for having Sporter in the first place.

Is anything wrong with Crosmans Sporter rifle?

Hi

I just copied the parts I'm going to address. The "goals for having sporter in the first place" are not exactly universal. Our shooting group is through 4-H, primarily because of insurance, and right now a building. If 4-H was at all in to Precision we would go all precision in the advanced group and just shoot sporters in the basic class. Oddly enough, cost isn't point of discussion for most of our families. Either they have enough money for an air rifle, kneeling roll, matt, scope, etc, or they don't. The extra $1,000 for a precision gun doesn't seem to matter for Junior's sport, after you already paid $600. We have six kids in the advanced group right now, two with precision guns and sporters, four with 888's only.

Yes there is something incredibly wrong with Crosman's 2000 rifle. We have had two, and they won't reliably pierce the CO2 cartridges. They also don't fit all that well, in spite of the adjustable stock. We won't be getting any more.

Mike
Wichita KS

[jhmartin]

I'm a 4-H Coach & Parent.

If my kids decide to shoot precision, then they will, with competitive equipment.

My point and comments on the Daisy Avanti diopter is not so much the cost, but that the peep sight that comes with the 888's and 853's is just fine for most of the shooters using these guns. When you order the "Advanced Precision Diopter" by Avanti (the sight that is on the 753's ... I don't know what they are shipping with the XS40) that sight is not worth the extra $35 you pay for it. (Note that the front sight, one that will take 18mm inserts is another $15 I believe).

The standard diopters are 2 clicks per ring and have VERY little backlash
The Avanti's are about 3 clicks per ring and have so much backlash in their adjustments (a 6 ring movement is common with one click), that they are really unusable.

You are correct in that sporter is supposed to be low cost, and even $80 for a rear sight from Gamo brings an 888 up to the $300 mark, but it is still NOTHING like the $600 or more that you have to pay for a XS40 these days.

I have only two shooters using the Gamo sights on their 888's. I have 15 other shooters using the standard 888 sights.

I guess the whole point of this discussion now is to tell folks that if they want a more precision sight for their 853's, 888's, and 753's they must go to Spain and get the Spanish Gamo's ... not Daisy's Chinese copy (#5996). It's a bit more $$, but if you have shooters that are shooting consistent 9's & 10's with these rifles, they really should have a tiny bit more adjustability.

(Note: there is nothing wrong with the Daisy 18mm front sights (#5901), although I'd order the extra aperture insert pak(#168968 @$3)

[Jay V]

If you want to keep costs down then you will have to accept less precision. You just can have high precision and low cost. Lets get real here. If sporter is going to remain affordable then accept less precision, if not then don't complain over the cost.

Daisy can build a repeatable sight, but perhaps not at a low enough cost.

Personally I think if you are going to demand more precision then you should shift into Precision and leave Sporter affordable. It hinges on what the goal is for having Sporter in the first place.

Is anything wrong with Crosmans Sporter rifle?

Really, do you have any experience with sporter?

Putting 10 shots in 1-hole is too much to ask, but having a sight that moves 1 click (not 6) when you want 1 click isn't too much "precision" to ask for in sporter equipment.

Daisy took an acceptable sight that they had purchased from Gamo and decided to produce it themselves in China - the result was junk. They did the same with their training pellets with the same result.

Sporter does need to remain affordable, and it does mostly because competitive guns are inexpensive and you can't use all of the special shooting gear (jacket, pants, boots, etc). The 888 is the gun of choice for the majority of top shooters, and is priced at about $250. Your only low cost alternative in precision, the LG 300 Jr from the CMP, is over $800 and you also need the special equipment to be competitive - so sporter works in my opinion.

The Crosman rifle is terrible, and is not even close to being competitive. Too bad, because it had some interesting features.


Jay V
IL
www.aiac-airguns.org

[mikeschroeder]

....
Putting 10 shots in 1-hole is too much to ask, but having a sight that moves 1 click (not 6) when you want 1 click isn't too much "precision" to ask for in sporter equipment.

Daisy took an acceptable sight that that had purchased from Gamo and decided to produce it themselves in China - the result was junk. They did the same with their training pellets with the same result.
....

After much cutting, I wanted to add that some of our 888's DO put 10 shots in one hole, but it's not exactly .177 like the Steyr one of our boys has. From my understanding, the new sights aren't likely to allow my shooters to shoot much more than a 90 in prone. Right now I have four kids shooting above that in prone, with 888's. They have had their guns for a couple or years.

These kids aren't particularly talented (i.e. natural shooters), but they'll be able to shoot better than a more talented kid / new gun. I think that's going to kill off my seed kids.

Mike

[jhmartin]

[quote="mikeschroeder]After much cutting, I wanted to add that some of our 888's DO put 10 shots in one hole, but it's not exactly .177 like the Steyr one of our boys has. From my understanding, the new sights aren't likely to allow my shooters to shoot much more than a 90 in prone. Right now I have four kids shooting above that in prone, with 888's. They have had their guns for a couple or years.

These kids aren't particularly talented (i.e. natural shooters), but they'll be able to shoot better than a more talented kid / new gun. I think that's going to kill off my seed kids.

Mike[/quote]

Jay V will attest that I'm pretty much brand spanking new to Sporter Air Rifle. I've had lots of great help ... folks on this board (especially Jay V!) and my local USAS rep Bill Barker.

Mike ... all I can say is give your kids a chance with as good of equipment as you or your club can afford.

My two 888 w/ GAMO shooters CONSISTENTLY shoot in the 90-95 range in prone ... and I mean it's rare when they are out of that. My oldest shooter is 14 and the other is 13. I had borrowed some real Gamo's after I'd tried to have the kids do crazy things with the Avanti's. When I shifted them back to the standard Daisy diopters, their scores dropped to the 83-86 range for the two weeks we went back to them. Plopped the borrowed GAMOs on and ...ping... back up in the 90's. (That front aperture has as much to do with it as the rear right)

I don't think that the sporter coaches (at least the one's I've had contact with) are asking for inexpensive gear. They are asking for a choice of reliable, accurate gear. Right now we have only 2 US manufacturers to choose from, Crosman and Daisy. (I'll not go further on this point as it gets off sights ... for those who want to pursue that like we should make another topic like "Why only 2?" .... then you'll really see me get on a soapbox! ;-) )