Hi all,
I would like some feedback on my scatt trace. I know my position was sinking a little and a bit off center but was focusing on size of trace.
I spent some time trying to reduce my trace size to keep it in the x ring and couldn't get it any smaller. I tried:
- high/low sling positions
- sling pulling from various directions
- sling cuff tightness
- sling path over the back of the hand
- sling tension
- head position
- butt plate position
I could make it bigger but no smaller.
I've got two questions for the forum experts.
1. Is it reasonable to reduce the size of the trace to the x ring?
2. What things can I try to reduce the size?
I am not a coach by any means, so take this with a grain of salt, but from over here (assuming this is prone, not kneeling) I bet your leg position is somewhat culprit. If you have the book "Ways of the Rifle, by MEC" now is time to read the leg section of Prone. The angles of both in relation to your body, how much they are bent, etc. plays a major part in your hold. Also make sure your sling is pulling around you arm evenly, not from the inside or outside, that can cause a pulse.
I am a coach, and here are some things to consider:
1.) Go into the settings portion of your SCATT program, and increase the amount of time it saves before each shot to 10 or even 15 seconds, That will let us see your approach to the target each time. Also, post the entire file, not just the screenshots, as it's very hard to diagnose things off a static SCATT trace. Photos of your position would also be very helpful.
2.) Over what time frame did you make the changes you mentioned? One session? One week? One month? The things you list are a lot to change over anything short of a month.
3.) You say you "know your position was sinking a little and a bit off center." It is very possible that your hold size was enlarged because your brain kept trying to push you back to the X-ring. This is an excellent example of why coaches harp on NPA like it's the only thing that matters: if you don't have it, not much else DOES matter.
4.) SCATT actually has a metric that will tell you how much of your hold would have been in the X-ring if your hold was perfectly centered. I can't recall what it is offhand (I'm at work and I don't have SCATT installed on the work machine), but others here should be able to fill in that gap for me.
Based on the limited information provided, I think your traces look pretty good. I would probably recommend focusing on NPA and breaking good shots, rather than shrinking your hold further. Posting your full SCATT file would help shore up that assessment, though.
As noted NPA is the key. Your hold is X-ring basically, it's just a bit low and to the left. Adjusting your NPA will put you dead in the X with a small amount of wobble outside, you can't really ask for much more.
Thanks all for you feedback so far. And this is for prone.
Andre, appreciate the pointer, I'll head to my library to review leg position.
mtncwru, appreciate the detailed response.
1. I will increase amount of time saved.
2. I made the changes over several nights. Each time I made a change I stood up and rebuilt the position.
3. I don't think this is the case as I was relaxing with eyes closed when I released the shot specifically to eliminate NPA errors
4. Thanks for the pointer, I'll track that parameter down.
Thanks Jenrick, one of the things I was wondering is if the hold is practically as small as it gets. If it is then I'll move to work on my shot release routine.
I would tend to agree with Jenrick. This one hold looks quite good; you are within the x-ring the majority of the time. It's hard to say much more than that without the entire file. Can you post one? I can take a look at it tonight when I get home from work.
mtncwru, thanks for the offer. I'm hesitant to post one of my scatt files as to date I primarily use the scatt for testing various options so I don't have a file where things are consistent which makes it hard for remote analysis.
I found the parameter to show the steadiness in 10.5 and when I turned on it showed that I was often over 98% with some at 100%. I'm happy with this!
The next item I'll work on is the shot release routine.
Peter_Scant wrote:mtncwru, thanks for the offer. I'm hesitant to post one of my scatt files as to date I primarily use the scatt for testing various options so I don't have a file where things are consistent which makes it hard for remote analysis.
Given that remote analysis is exactly what you're asking for, you might want to reconsider. We can only get so much from a trace screenshot; the file itself gives much more data that is necessary for complete analysis (like your 10a and 10.5a values), and photos of your position along with that file are better still. Obviously it's your call, but providing more data will help avoid getting sent down irrelevant rabbit holes.
Of course that's ALWAYS a risk with forum coaching requests...
I know what you saying. You've great assistance already.
I'll "put together" a clean file over the weekend.
I could post a mp4 of the trace but targettalk won't let me attach the file due to it's type and the image hosting service I use only hosts image files which is why I created the time sequence.
The values are:
10a0 - 100%
10a5 - 94%
Length - 34.3
(no heading) - 1.3
By any chance would you know what the value is the column without a heading?
The fact that your hold is a little low and to the left is probably just a calibration/zeroing issue with the SCATT itself. You could try using the option to centre the group with the target (haven't got the software here to tell you exactly where it is but it's the same dropdown as the "F" coefficient setting)
I've tested the SCATT that I usually use with the rifle clamped and the minimum trace I can get is about 30mm. It seems that there is a constant small vibration throughout my house! You might want to try a similar test with your setup then you can mentally subtract that figure from whatever the trace length is to give you an idea of how steadily you're holding.
timinder wrote:I've tested the SCATT that I usually use with the rifle clamped and the minimum trace I can get is about 30mm. It seems that there is a constant small vibration throughout my house! You might want to try a similar test with your setup then you can mentally subtract that figure from whatever the trace length is to give you an idea of how steadily you're holding.
30mm does seem a little on the high side - with the USB SCATT I was getting around 12mm (24mm worst ever) and the MX02 seems to give around 6mm from a rest.
KennyB wrote:30mm does seem a little on the high side - with the USB SCATT I was getting around 12mm (24mm worst ever) and the MX02 seems to give around 6mm from a rest.
KennyB wrote:We believe that we are seeing traces with the MX02 that are about 50% longer than with the USB version
That's interesting Ken. So you're getting 50% shorter "still" traces from a rest with the MX02 but 50% longer traces when shooting?
This sounds like a need to mount an MX02 and a USB at the same time for comparison, or have you figured out what's going on.
KennyB wrote:
30mm does seem a little on the high side - with the USB SCATT I was getting around 12mm (24mm worst ever) and the MX02 seems to give around 6mm from a rest.
I was quite surprised too! I'd like to try it somewhere else so I can see if it's an issue with this particular system, or my house.
KennyB wrote:We believe that we are seeing traces with the MX02 that are about 50% longer than with the USB version
That's interesting Ken. So you're getting 50% shorter "still" traces from a rest with the MX02 but 50% longer traces when shooting?
This sounds like a need to mount an MX02 and a USB at the same time for comparison, or have you figured out what's going on.
That's correct David.
I know someone who says he's done exactly that experiment - SCATT USB and MX02 on one rifle and the L values from the MX02 were longer by around 50%. The reason seems to be that the MX02 has a higher resolution (sampling rate) and so tracks the "crinklyness" of your traces in more detail than the USB.
More crinkly detail = longer trace.
With MX02, setting the f-coefficient to about 2/3 of what you would use with USB should give more comparable values for 10.0, 10.5, 10a0 & 10a5.
KennyB wrote:We believe that we are seeing traces with the MX02 that are about 50% longer than with the USB version
That's interesting Ken. So you're getting 50% shorter "still" traces from a rest with the MX02 but 50% longer traces when shooting?
This sounds like a need to mount an MX02 and a USB at the same time for comparison, or have you figured out what's going on.
That's correct David.
I know someone who says he's done exactly that experiment - SCATT USB and MX02 on one rifle and the L values from the MX02 were longer by around 50%. The reason seems to be that the MX02 has a higher resolution (sampling rate) and so tracks the "crinklyness" of your traces in more detail than the USB.
More crinkly detail = longer trace.
That makes sense Ken, but doesn't explain why the rested "background" traces are 50% shorter.
By any chance would you know what the value is the column without a heading?
Hi Peter,
I think those numbers are pretty good - the number without a heading is a measure of the distance between the center of the POA in the control interval (i.e. the yellow trace) and the actual shot breach. I see it as an indicator of either triggering issues, instability or releasing on the wrong part of the heartbeat - either can cause the shot to be away from the yellow trace.
Ideally you'd like the shot to go straight through the yellow trace... and the yellow trace to be in the middle.
Are you training with the SCATT at 10m?
Have you tried different clothing under your jacket - I tried a compression top over the weekend and didn't shoot well. The SCATT numbers were worse when I got home and did a post-mortem.
Back to the old top...
Peter,
I have seen a lot of Scatt shooting of few of the best shooters in the world.
I can tell you,that if your Scatt works well,your values are fantastic.
I have never seen any prone shooter that can hold constantly in 10.5 with 94%.
The L value is also great!(34)
I have talked with Matt Emmons last week in Korea about his Scatt hold,and he said that his L is around 45...
If you have such a hold,don't change anything! You should have the ability to shoot very high scores!
Guy.
