Anschutz vs Izhmash

weilers · Post by **weilers** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:30 pm

Hi all,

I am seriously contemplating purchasing an Anschutz 1827 with the Fortner action. I'm just wondering if anybody out there has one? Used one? What's the experience like? etc.

Any information helps,

AlexMT · Post by **AlexMT** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:33 pm

Both rifles are excellent, however the anschutz is more accurate in the cold from the factory. The folks who replace or work on the Russian barrels can make those guns shoot, for some additional $. The Ismash stock is functional but crude and the comb is too high and will need shaving unless you have microcephaly. The triggers on both guns are very good and fully adjustable, however the Russian can be dry fired by simply removing the magazine, while the Anschutz bolt must be disassembled to insert the dry firing protector. This is not a trivial operation and adds to the pain in the ass factor.
The best of both worlds would be the Ismash action with a custom stock and accurized barrel, as sold by Altius or Larsen, which is around the same price as a new Fortner.
Hope this is usefull.

Kevin6Q · Post by **Kevin6Q** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:16 pm

I've used both and agree with Alex. The Izhmash is a really nice gun for the money. In the very cold, shooting is just plain difficult. I have an Izhmash and have used it down to -20F and the accuracy fall off was mostly me. I couldn't feel my cheek on the comb, fingers, and lying in the snow, even on a mat, was just miserable.

Another thing about the Izhmash is they are pretty indestructible. I've never heard if a broken firing pin. The stock is solid so you can carve the hell out of it to make it fit you. The 1827 stocks are hollow to save weight thus limiting the ability to chop and grind. The factory carry harness and sling have a bit to be desired and worth replacing as Alex stated.

My Izhmash looks like some beaver has been chewing on it but it fits me well and has been consistent for the past 5 years.

The Izhmash is also easy to work on and simple to field strip. The 1827 isn't fiddly but does require a bit more finesse to disassemble and there are more parts.

The eye relief on the Izhmash can be very short since the bolt doesn't move out the rear of the action like the 1827. The mechanism pivots at the rear end so the clearance remains high. Most athletes close the bolt of the 1827 with their thumb and only use the toggle to open the bolt. With a short eye relief there is a chance of poking yourself with the bolt or your thumb.

The sights on both guns are well made and repeatable. I use my Izhmash to shoot silo matches and 100 yd events and dial in about 35 clicks up and maybe take a few more for a good zero. I dial it back out and I'm almost good to go. The apertures for the Annie are much better and there are more choices. Same for the front inserts.

Removing the mags from the Izmash is a simple finger hook and very fast and positive with gloves on. The 1827 takes a bit of practice for a fast and clean insertion. The metal mags of the 1827 allow you to use magnets to hold them into the stock which is fast and holds well. The plastic of the Izhmash holds up well (I have about 100,000 round through my rifle so the mags get a lot of use) and there is one size. The 1827 has a long ans short version. They are interchangeable but the handling is different.

If I think of anything else I'll ad it in.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:08 pm

I started with the Baikal 7-2 and liked it just fine. This is just an older version of the more common Izhmash rifles. Years back I was having problems with my right eye....so I bought a left hand 1827 fortner. At that time I don't remember any left handed Russian guns.
The Anshutz is like a piece of medical equipment compared to the Baikal, but the Russian stuff works great. I was doing summer biathlon (no cold weather), so accuracy with the Baikal was just fine.
For me...I bought the Baikal 7-2 because it was the first thing available at a reasonable price, so I could start competing. Half inch groups at 50 yards with expensive ammo are common if I bench rest the rifle. Cheaper ammo opens up the group closer to an inch.
My Anshutz is more accurate than the Baikal, but $550 compared to $2700?
I actually bought my first biathlon rifle on this web site, when Scott Pilkington had a more formal used gun for sale section.

MNshooter · Post by **MNshooter** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:32 pm

Hi:

My son is looking at purchasing an Izhmash biathlon rifle. There was mention of accuracy problems in the cold (ie: welcome to MN). Do you know if the problems arise out of the action bedding in the stock or is it something else.
Thanks!

RonBott · Post by **RonBott** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:05 am

MNshooter wrote: Do you know if the problems arise out of the action bedding in the stock or is it something else.

It has to do the with materials composition of the barrel and not with the bedding. At least that was how it was explained to me several years ago. Any Izhmash you see on the World Cup level will have been re-barreled to something that will shoot better in the colder weather. They are good down to around 5F, after that the group sizes really enlarge.

Kevin6Q · Post by **Kevin6Q** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:43 am

I've used my 7-4 in temps as low as -20F for no other purpose than to shoot in really cold weather. The gun worked fine; me, not so well. Much of the group opening also has to do with ammo. The stuff manufactured for cold temps definitely works better when temps drop below 40F and are vastly superior when temps are 25F and lower.

Cold weather ammo has a hotter primer to get the powder burning faster. This keeps the ammo more consistent and gets it out of the barrel faster. Most cold weather ammo is better quality which helps the accuracy.

In cold temps skiing does keep you warm but the face takes a beating. Feeling the cheek weld can be challenging and most biathletes use relatively thin gloves for dexterity reasons. These gloves are great to shoot with but most are a bit thin so the fingers tend to be colder than they would for just skiing. Cold fingers have poor feel and fine motor control.

How much the barrel matters is tough to say. I've outshot athletes with the tricked out 7-4s and 1827s in temps hovering around zero F. I've also watched athletes "upgrade" from the 7-4 to the 1827 and not improve their hit percentage.

louisep887 · Post by **louisep887** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:58 am

Thanks for the post.
Hi guys, Im a newbie. Nice to join this forum.

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MNshooter · Post by **MNshooter** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:27 am

Hi:

Izhmash 7-4 rifles are getting scarce - importer problems. I spent most of Friday on the phone trying to buy one at a reasonable price. A few are around under the Saiga name.

MTguns.com had two left for $1395.00 (now they have one). Altius may have some for about $400.00 more. Anschutz rifles are slow in entering the county but coming in. They are now about$3,300.00 to$3500.00 if you can find one.

BrowningFNH · Post by **BrowningFNH** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:43 pm

I was on the Izhmash website and saw this....The "Biathlon-7-ЗА" and "Biathlon-7-4A" are furnished with barrels made by "Anschutz".
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/bi-7.shtml

If accuracy is due to the barrel does that mean Izmash is getting some factory seconds or something? Any opinions or ideas?

Thanks!

Craig1956 · Post by **Craig1956** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:18 pm

I don't think you can buy those anymore -

" Please note that several web sites list other versions of the Izhmash rifle, including one with an Anschutz barrel. The versions described in this information sheet are the ONLY versions available at this time. "

But the Izhmash is very accurate - I've shot many groups with iron sights with at least 4 shots in one ragged hole that a small paster can cover with the fifth not far out ( and probably my fault ) and 50 yards.

" The Izhmash rifle is a very solid, straight pull action rifle which offers excellent performance and value. The action is a ‘pinch lock’ system. Although not as refined in design or finish as an Anschutz product, it is totally reliable and is on par with Anschutz for accuracy."

http://www.altiusguns.com/articles/rifles.pdf

BrowningFNH · Post by **BrowningFNH** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:51 am

Thanks Craig 1956! Sounds like its tough to get an Izhmash now days...went back and forth with a guy from MT Guns and he said they are not aware of anywhere in the states where you can purchase a new Izhmash biathlon rifle. Guess I'll just be saving up twice as long to get the 1847.

Craig1956 · Post by **Craig1956** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:43 am

That's because it's biathlon season. I'll bet you can buy 3 of them if you wanted next June !! We bought ours last June.

MNshooter · Post by **MNshooter** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:48 am

Hi:

Good luck finding a 7-4. I called most of the Izmash dealers in August that I could find including the importer. I was told there was a problem importing them.

I purchased one of the last two that MT Guns had. You should try Altius Shooting. He may have one. The link is: http://www.altiusguns.com/index.html
George

ARshooter · Post by **ARshooter** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:44 am

I called Altius. He does not have any and does not know when he will get more. At this point I am looking at the Anschutz which will be available again in March

MNshooter · Post by **MNshooter** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:03 pm

Hi:

There is a used Anschutz Biathlon bolt action rifle on GunBroker. Item # 213927081 -- $975 start price.

George

Gredal · Post by **Gredal** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:18 pm

I am hoping to order an Anchutz for my son and see that there are three basic variants on the Anchutz site...1)1827 Fortner/2) Sprint/and 3)Sprint Heavy Barrel ...

Can anyone tell me what is the difference and why you would choose one over the other?

I coach 5 athletes who have purchased new Anchutz in the past year and all are different...it seems the the information for ordering is really confusing and no one knows exactly what to order...is there a decision tree/matrix somewhere to help...we have one guy with small clips that are not interchangeable and yet the Anchutz sight is not clear on this option.

help please!

ARshooter · Post by **ARshooter** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:52 am

This might help:
http://www.altiusguns.com/articles/rifles.pdf

Craig1956 · Post by **Craig1956** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:01 pm

Here is another source too -
http://www.champchoice.com/cat-.22_Cal_ ... s-408.aspx

Gredal · Post by **Gredal** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:30 pm

these sites are great but don't explain the Fortner Sprint - Heavy Barrel option...anyone?

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