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a place to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:19 pm
Posts: 1131
Location: Wyoming
For those of you who use your LP50 to train for bullseye can you tell me how you set it up? For example I shoot a Beretta for LEG matches so putting on a .45 grip and cranking the trigger up to 4lbs is a poor approximation at best. I was more interested in the possibility of putting on an Aimpoint or an ultradot and cranking the heavier trigger to 2.5lbs as the Steyr grip on my LP10 seems quite similar to the Nill grip on my Hammerli 208 that I use for bullseye, or I could put on the dot and crank the trigger up to 3.5 to approximate my .45 which I have straight grips on but my scores with the .45 are rapidly catching up with my .22 scores anyway. All input appreciated with particular attention as to how you believe training with the air pistol has improved either your slow fire or your sustained fire. I have been working with my LP10 for a week and a half now and my scores are climbing into the high 80's and low 90's and I am anxious to see if it might be possible to get the same improvement in timed and rapid fire by shooting the LP50. Isabel


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:59 am 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:23 am
Posts: 21
Location: Bolton, MA
I bought an LP50 about two years ago so I could practice in my basement. I shoot primarily the NRA Gallery Course with a Walther GSP and Ultradot, so I set up the LP50 with the same model Ultradot and adjusted the trigger to approximately the same 2-lb pull. The grip angle is quite a bit different from the GSP and regardless of the pull weight the trigger feels quite different from the 2-stage GSP trigger.

Regardless, I've been shooting a few times a week in the basement with the LP50 and my scores have improved around 10 points to the high 270s (which I know is a joke to most people who spend time here, but it's good for me!). Of course, I don't know whether my scores would have similarly improved without the LP50, but I feel that it's helped, particularly with the sustained fire stages. Either way, it's an enjoyable thing to be able to do at a moment's notice in the evening and has been a purchase I've been very happy with.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:37 pm
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Location: Delaware
I had a go at using the LP50 for sustained fire training when I first got it. Put on the 45 grip adapter, the heavy trigger, and a red dot. Didn't do much for me, since my main issue in CF/45 sustained fire is recoil and trigger management. Didn't help in 22 T/R training either - it just felt different. I agree it is a great training tool for slow fire, especially 22 slow fire. In fact I went back to shooting 22 with iron sights. It does help with parts of CF/45 slow fire, especially area aiming and related mental issues. I learned to shoot BE with 6 o'clock hold and area aiming was a big revelation for me. But the 45 is so different - a much stronger grip is required, and I find the trigger must be started much sooner. Read some of 2650's stuff. I agree with a lot of it, but could never apply it to AP - too big a difference between a 3.5 lb trigger and a 1 lb (500gm) trigger.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:30 am 
Fred, how do you feel about the trigger on your LP50? Have you compared it to the LP10? I am starting to think that the LP50 for me is probably redundant. I will check this weekend to see if I can shoot my .22 with the dot as well as I am starting to shoot the LP10 with iron sights. I agree about the .45, the big issues are the recoil and knowing the trigger. I am afraid with the .45 there is no good substitute for time at the range, turning targets and lots of three second drills. Isabel


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 209
Isabel-
I recently bought a used LP50.... I shoot Bullseye but more and more I'm getting drawn into 10m AP!

In any case, it is certainly not the holy grail of bullseye training devices. I do not have the 1911 grip or heavy trigger; I got the LP50 for that *option* but I am not sure I will ever use it (possibly interested though if anybody selling their accessories...). In any case, the compensator eliminates any significant muzzle rise. So yes there is some benefit to sustained fire training, but I don't think any benefit in terms of recoil management, which seems to be what you want. IMHO, the challenge of sustained fire with a .45 is getting on that trigger while you still have no sight picture...the LP50 is not for that...unless you throw your arm up in the air or have a training partner slap your arm up from under after each shot ;-) Not to digress, but I am of relatively slight build and my sustained fire benefited greatly from 2 things primarily:
1. Taking grip strength training very seriously (google "captains of crush" or maybe crunch, I forget...but they have some great grip building tools)
2. Leaning forward significantly.

Anyway, what I have played with
Sustained fire:
There are some very excellent and accurate airsoft 1911 out there. The ones with gas blow back have about the same recoil force as SV .22 ammo. I have cheapo($100) that holds the 10 ring and 15 yards, or a quarter at 20 feet when I practice in the garage. Mine is co2 powered but it can also take propane from a camping cylinder. Lots of fun, and some of them you can even put your own 1911 grips on if I'm not mistaken. Tokyo Mauri is considered the most reliable and most customizable brand, also the most expensive. These are really high quality replicas, you can come very close to the weight and balance of your .45, the trigger...we'll that's tough...but if recoil management is what you want then this will help a little to build confidence...it ain't no .45!
Slow fire:
If you can find one...crossman used to make a 1911 conversion kit, a 1911 upper that took a co2 capsule and shot .177 pellets, so you practice with your own 1911 trigger. It was the crossman/blaser 455. It only takes one pellet at a time, again no holy grail.
Also a S&W 78G when I thought I wanted a M41.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:37 pm
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Location: Delaware
Isabel1130 (as guest) wrote:
Fred, how do you feel about the trigger on your LP50? Have you compared it to the LP10?


The LP50 and LP10 triggers are quite different. The LP50 has a single stage trigger with a bit of roll. Just what is needed for an AP sustained fire course. With the heavy trigger version set to 3.5 lb it is a fair approximation to a 45 trigger. Of course, the gun feels very different in your hand.
The LP10 has a two stage trigger, with a crisp 2nd stage. Great for 10M AP, but nothing like any cartridge gun.

AP is a lot of fun, and I rarely shoot BE any more. But I don't think it is worth buying any AP as a BE trainer. Better off with the classic dry fire training with your 22 and 45 and drills at the range for sustained fire. It all depends, of course, on what your shooting goals are.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:48 pm 
I am having lopts of fun shooting my LP10 in the evenings at home when I can't get to the range. I have to drive about 45 minutes to get to a good indoor range and I try and do live fire twice a week when I have a match on the weekends and three times if I don't. I think air pistol could become an addiction in and of itself. I have ordered a free pistol and am going to start shooting that event in the summer just to build my slow fire skills. I never shot anything but iron sights 25 years ago when I shot a lot and then picked up a dot when I started to shoot again last spring. It is taking me time to relearn the irons and apply good technique to the dot. I came to the conclusion that the dot made me want to hold the gun up too long and that the dot was never going to appear to stand still the way the irons do when I have a good hold. I am busy breaking myself of holding the gun up too long as I get much better shots off if I put the gun up, let it settle and just squeeze the trigger until the shot breaks. I have learned that the air pistol is really sensitive to any kind of forced shot. The only time I am out of the 9 ring now is when I have forced the shot or I have held the gun up too long. I am getting closer everyday to a sub nine ring hold and hope to improve further from there. I figure even with the light trigger, the air pistol can do nothing but improve my hold for Bullseye. For my .22 and .45 I agree I need to dry fire and go to the range as often as I can. Isabel


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:28 pm 
I had owned an LP5, which is the predecessor of the LP50, and tend to agree with the comments by Fred and melchloboo. Mine wasn't set-up with a heavy trigger, but I did try the 1911 grip frame and found the pistol to be far too nose-heavy with this grip. These are very nice AP's, but I wouldn't buy one solely for BE training.

A semi AP that I have found to be a useful trainer is the Drulov DU-10. These aren't really appropriate as match pistols, but they do have very good accuracy. They were designed as trainers for some rapid fire event that's popular in, what was, Czechoslovakia. I've done a little work on mine, to improve the trigger. With the proper tuning, it provides a very good simulation of a 22. The balance and dimensions are close to that of a standard pistol and the recoil enables you to train for timed and rapid fire effectively. The funny thing is that the Drulov is better that the LP5, for my purposes, because it's less refined.


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