Hi All,
I have just started in the sport of .22 target rifle shooting. I have joined a local UK club as a probationary member, that's the UK gun laws for you! My background is 24 years in the UK army with all the shooting practice you can imagine, ten years after leaving I now want to get back to shooting.
I have looked at some rifles but have short listed the 1903 and 1907 by Anschutz. Apart from the 1903 being half the price of the 1907 (£870), which one one would you recommend? I am a couple of months away from being able to purchase a rifle so would like to do some in-depth research.
Dave.
First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Regards,
Dave.
Dave.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
If your not positively sure you want to shoot smallbore, I wouldn't recommend an anschutz as a first rifle. That's need, if you WANT one, go for it! Their great rifles. And if your going the Anschutz way, I'd recommend the 1907 over the 1903. The 1903 has the smaller and less robust 64 action, but the 1907 is heavier, will last longer, and is better balanced in my opinion.
Keep in mind though, there are other ways to go than an anschutz. One of the best shooters I know, Jim Perrin, shoots a Winchester 52 in a homemade stock. He's a fantastic shot. Before I got my anschutz, I was shooting a Winchester 52 also. Very nice rifle, in my experience I second it to anschutz. There is also the Remington 40x line, but I have no experience so I won't vouch for them
Keep in mind though, there are other ways to go than an anschutz. One of the best shooters I know, Jim Perrin, shoots a Winchester 52 in a homemade stock. He's a fantastic shot. Before I got my anschutz, I was shooting a Winchester 52 also. Very nice rifle, in my experience I second it to anschutz. There is also the Remington 40x line, but I have no experience so I won't vouch for them
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Andre,
Thanks for response, I will consider other manufacturers but am struggling to find rifles near where I live. If I wanted a hunting/pest control rifle, there are plenty to see in the gun shops but target rifles have to be ordered in. I like to see and handle before I buy and even try before I buy.
As I said, I'm in no rush to buy, so will keep looking and take advice from experienced shooters such as yourself.
Regards,
Dave
Thanks for response, I will consider other manufacturers but am struggling to find rifles near where I live. If I wanted a hunting/pest control rifle, there are plenty to see in the gun shops but target rifles have to be ordered in. I like to see and handle before I buy and even try before I buy.
As I said, I'm in no rush to buy, so will keep looking and take advice from experienced shooters such as yourself.
Regards,
Dave
Regards,
Dave.
Dave.
-
Wynne G Oldman
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:36 pm
- Location: Bury, Lancashire, England.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
You're probably best asking around at your club. There's usually plenty of second hand bargains popping up at clubs.
Morini 162 EI
Anschutz 1913 Supermatch
Anschutz 1913 Supermatch
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Dave,
unless money is no object buying second hand is the way to go. .22lR barrels wear very slowly, so even a 30+ year old rifle will still be very accurate if in good condition. I would avoid the 1903 rifle unless you have no other choice; it's not at all a bad rifle, but it's a junior sized, and built around a light-weight action. Most Anschutz target rifles are built around the superior Match 54 action.
If you are buying second hand, Anschutz rifles will be the most common. You will find other brands, notably BSA, Feinkerkbau (FWB), Walther, and Valmet. FWB and Walther are every bit as good as Anschutz, and if you were buying new would be a very good choice, but are less common second hand. For the first time buyer most other brands are a bit too old or rare to consider unless you are on a seriously tight budget; while a 1950s Hammerli rifle may still shoot accurately, there are no spare parts if something breaks.
Anschutz make their .22 target rifles in three different styles: the Supermatch, the Prone, and the Standard. Be aware that most Anschütz barrels and stocks are largely interchangeable, and “marriages” are very common as shooters upgrade around a favourite stock or barrel.
The Supermatch (models 1413, 1613, 1813, 1913): This is Anschütz’s top of the range model, made for Olympic 3-Position and Prone shooting. It is a Match 54 bolt with a 27in heavy barrel. Stocks are either walnut, or aluminium. Wood stocks have a thumbhole grip, most aluminium stocks have an articulated pistol grip. The fore-end is normally straight, and broad. All Supermatch stocks have a metal hook butt, and adjustable for length; the newer the stock the more adjustable the parts are. Rifles made after 1972 have an adjustable cheekpiece.
The Prone (models 1411, 1611, 1811, 1911): This was a special model made for English-speaking countries, and was discintniued around 15 years ago. It is a Match 54 bolt with a 27in heavy barrel. Stocks are a special American prone-only design made of Walnut or beech, with a straight and broad fore-end (much like the Supermatch), and a long straight butt, with a simple rubber plate. Rifles made after 1972 have an adjustable cheekpiece.
The Standard (models 1407, 1607, 1807, 1907): This is the entry level 3-Position rifle, formerly popular with women. It is a Match 54 bolt with a lighter 26in barrel. Stocks are wooden, typically walnut or beech; the fore-end is narrow and tapers up from the triggerguard. Adjustable cheekpieces have been fitted since 1980, but ‘80s and ‘90s rifles are adjusted by packing wedges under the cheekpiece. You have a 1407 Standard Rifle.
Each type of rifle has been made in four distinct production series. These largely refer to major changes to the Match 54 bolt or trigger. The four series are 1400, 1600, 1800, and 1900.
1400 (models 1407, 1411, 1413). These are rifles made between 1954 and 1977. 1400 bolts have a straight handle, and a safety catch at the rear. Triggers and bolt internals vary; pre ’64 bolts have a single claw, post ’64 bolts have two claws. Early rifles are marked either “Match 54” or with a specific model number. After 1965 all barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell Match 54”.
1600 (models 1607, 1611, 1613). These are rifles made between 1977 and 1980. 1600 bolts have an improved firing pin; 1977-78 bolts have a straight handle, ’78-’80 bolts have a curved handle. 1600 rifles have an improved trigger. All 1600 barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell Match 54”.
1800 (models 1807, 1811, 1813). These are rifles made between 1980 and 1987. The bolt and trigger are externally identical to 1600 rifles, but there are key internal changes. All 1800 bolts have a curved handle. 1800 barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell 1813 Supermatch” (27in heavy barrels) or “Anschutz Model 1807” (26in standard barrel). 1800 rifles have allen-head bedding bolts backed by a stack of spring washers.
1900 (models 1907, 1911, and 1913). These are rifles made since 1987. 1900 bolts and triggers are identical to (and interchangeable with) 1800 rifles. The only major difference between 1800 and 1900 rifles is the foresight mounting; your foresight will fit any 1800 (or 1400/1600) rifle, but not a 1900 rifle. 1900 barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell 1913 Supermatch” (27in heavy barrels) or “Anschutz Model 1907” (26in standard barrel).
In general terms buy the newest, least-used, and highest spec rifle that you can find within your budget. There are few pitfalls to buying a used rifle. In most cases if the rifle is clean and tidy, with no rust on the metalwork, and no cracks or gouges in the wood, it will be acceptable. Smallbore barrels are very long lasting, most will shoot 10-ring groups for at least 100,000 rounds. So unless the rifle was owned by a very serious county/national level shooter, the barrel “mileage” would not be too high, however the lower the barrel “mileage” the more life you will get from the rifle, and the less likely it is that the barrel will be fussy over ammo.
For most adult men I would recommend either a Supermatch or Prone rifle rifle, as the heavy barrel makes it more stable than the lighter Standard rifle. Obviously a Supermatch is easier to adjust to the shooter's position, and most top UK Prone shooters will chose a Supermatch rifle, but a Prone rifle can be made to fit well too. In terms of price, in a private sale I would expect to pay £300+ for a 1970s 1413 Supermatch (w. adjustable cheekpiece), and £400+ for a 1613/1813/1913 Supermatch. The exact price depends on the age of the rifle, the accessories, and whether the sights and stock (includiung the buttplate and handstop) are the original or fancy upgrades; you will pay more for newer rifles and fancy bits. At the top end you could pay £2000+ for a nearly new 1913 barrel in the latest aluminium stock with fancy sights. However for a budget of £500-£1000 you could expect a good condition 1813 or 1913 Supermatch rifle with some fancy bits.
unless money is no object buying second hand is the way to go. .22lR barrels wear very slowly, so even a 30+ year old rifle will still be very accurate if in good condition. I would avoid the 1903 rifle unless you have no other choice; it's not at all a bad rifle, but it's a junior sized, and built around a light-weight action. Most Anschutz target rifles are built around the superior Match 54 action.
If you are buying second hand, Anschutz rifles will be the most common. You will find other brands, notably BSA, Feinkerkbau (FWB), Walther, and Valmet. FWB and Walther are every bit as good as Anschutz, and if you were buying new would be a very good choice, but are less common second hand. For the first time buyer most other brands are a bit too old or rare to consider unless you are on a seriously tight budget; while a 1950s Hammerli rifle may still shoot accurately, there are no spare parts if something breaks.
Anschutz make their .22 target rifles in three different styles: the Supermatch, the Prone, and the Standard. Be aware that most Anschütz barrels and stocks are largely interchangeable, and “marriages” are very common as shooters upgrade around a favourite stock or barrel.
The Supermatch (models 1413, 1613, 1813, 1913): This is Anschütz’s top of the range model, made for Olympic 3-Position and Prone shooting. It is a Match 54 bolt with a 27in heavy barrel. Stocks are either walnut, or aluminium. Wood stocks have a thumbhole grip, most aluminium stocks have an articulated pistol grip. The fore-end is normally straight, and broad. All Supermatch stocks have a metal hook butt, and adjustable for length; the newer the stock the more adjustable the parts are. Rifles made after 1972 have an adjustable cheekpiece.
The Prone (models 1411, 1611, 1811, 1911): This was a special model made for English-speaking countries, and was discintniued around 15 years ago. It is a Match 54 bolt with a 27in heavy barrel. Stocks are a special American prone-only design made of Walnut or beech, with a straight and broad fore-end (much like the Supermatch), and a long straight butt, with a simple rubber plate. Rifles made after 1972 have an adjustable cheekpiece.
The Standard (models 1407, 1607, 1807, 1907): This is the entry level 3-Position rifle, formerly popular with women. It is a Match 54 bolt with a lighter 26in barrel. Stocks are wooden, typically walnut or beech; the fore-end is narrow and tapers up from the triggerguard. Adjustable cheekpieces have been fitted since 1980, but ‘80s and ‘90s rifles are adjusted by packing wedges under the cheekpiece. You have a 1407 Standard Rifle.
Each type of rifle has been made in four distinct production series. These largely refer to major changes to the Match 54 bolt or trigger. The four series are 1400, 1600, 1800, and 1900.
1400 (models 1407, 1411, 1413). These are rifles made between 1954 and 1977. 1400 bolts have a straight handle, and a safety catch at the rear. Triggers and bolt internals vary; pre ’64 bolts have a single claw, post ’64 bolts have two claws. Early rifles are marked either “Match 54” or with a specific model number. After 1965 all barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell Match 54”.
1600 (models 1607, 1611, 1613). These are rifles made between 1977 and 1980. 1600 bolts have an improved firing pin; 1977-78 bolts have a straight handle, ’78-’80 bolts have a curved handle. 1600 rifles have an improved trigger. All 1600 barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell Match 54”.
1800 (models 1807, 1811, 1813). These are rifles made between 1980 and 1987. The bolt and trigger are externally identical to 1600 rifles, but there are key internal changes. All 1800 bolts have a curved handle. 1800 barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell 1813 Supermatch” (27in heavy barrels) or “Anschutz Model 1807” (26in standard barrel). 1800 rifles have allen-head bedding bolts backed by a stack of spring washers.
1900 (models 1907, 1911, and 1913). These are rifles made since 1987. 1900 bolts and triggers are identical to (and interchangeable with) 1800 rifles. The only major difference between 1800 and 1900 rifles is the foresight mounting; your foresight will fit any 1800 (or 1400/1600) rifle, but not a 1900 rifle. 1900 barrels are marked “Anschutz Modell 1913 Supermatch” (27in heavy barrels) or “Anschutz Model 1907” (26in standard barrel).
In general terms buy the newest, least-used, and highest spec rifle that you can find within your budget. There are few pitfalls to buying a used rifle. In most cases if the rifle is clean and tidy, with no rust on the metalwork, and no cracks or gouges in the wood, it will be acceptable. Smallbore barrels are very long lasting, most will shoot 10-ring groups for at least 100,000 rounds. So unless the rifle was owned by a very serious county/national level shooter, the barrel “mileage” would not be too high, however the lower the barrel “mileage” the more life you will get from the rifle, and the less likely it is that the barrel will be fussy over ammo.
For most adult men I would recommend either a Supermatch or Prone rifle rifle, as the heavy barrel makes it more stable than the lighter Standard rifle. Obviously a Supermatch is easier to adjust to the shooter's position, and most top UK Prone shooters will chose a Supermatch rifle, but a Prone rifle can be made to fit well too. In terms of price, in a private sale I would expect to pay £300+ for a 1970s 1413 Supermatch (w. adjustable cheekpiece), and £400+ for a 1613/1813/1913 Supermatch. The exact price depends on the age of the rifle, the accessories, and whether the sights and stock (includiung the buttplate and handstop) are the original or fancy upgrades; you will pay more for newer rifles and fancy bits. At the top end you could pay £2000+ for a nearly new 1913 barrel in the latest aluminium stock with fancy sights. However for a budget of £500-£1000 you could expect a good condition 1813 or 1913 Supermatch rifle with some fancy bits.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Post 2- What to look for in a second hand rifle.
Firstly, don't buy a rifle unseen. The seller may not be completely accurate in their description, usually through ignorance; it's very common to see any Supermatch rifle labelled an 1813, even when it's much too old. Always give any second hand rifle a good inspection as condition plays a big part in the price of a rifle. If you don't feel confident doing this alone, bring an experienced shooter from your club along with you.
In my opinion first impressions count. You want to see a rifle that looks neat and tidy. The barrel and action should be free of rust, except the odd pinprick on an older rifle. Heavy pitting or a brown tinge is not a good sign, as it means the owner was too lazy to wipe the barrel with an oily cloth, or stored it somewhere very damp; neither is good as there could be more rust underneath the action, or inside the barrel. Club rifles are often rusty.
The wood work should be reasonably tidy; small dings and handling marks are OK, but big dents, chips, or anything that makes the stock look like it was used as a cricket bat are not OK. If the stock has been altered (i.e. the butt shortened, or the cheekpiece reshaped), the work should look neat and professional; ham-fisted butchery may not affect how it shoots, but it doesn't look nice. What is more important is that there are no cracks at the wrist (the thinnest part of the grip) and around the bedding bolts. Tatty varnish doesn't affect accuracy, but a cracked stock will. Cracks can be repaired, but can leave a weak spot. Unless you can negotiate a big discount, I would reject a rifle with a cracked stock.
Check that the barrel is level in the stock, and has an even gap all around it (even underneath). Modern rifles have a free-floated barrel, this means the barrel does not touch the stock ahead of the action. Any contact between the barrel and the stock can cause poor or erratic grouping. I would also recommend asking for the barrel and stock to be separated to check the bedding area. Wood can be damaged by overtightening the bolts that hold in the barrel, and also by exposure to oil and cleaning solvents. You want to see healthy wood, and bedding bolts that have no damage to the heads. If the stock has been epoxy bedded, this is an advantage. This means that the wood under the action has been chiselled back, and replaced with a layer of metal-reinforced epoxy resin. The epoxy cures around the action to form a perfect low-stress fit, that doesn't change with the weather (wood can warp in hot or humid conditions).
The rifle must have a bolt, because the are expensive to buy separately. The bolt also has to be the right one, as it was individually fitted to the action. Look at the serial number (on the left hand side of the receiver, just ahead of the breech) and compare this with the 3 numbers stamped on the bolt nose. The numbers on the bolt should match the last three digits of the serial number. If the numbers don't match, I would be concerned. Replacing the bolt is a professional job.
If you are looking at an older rifle which has an all steel bolt handle, this can give an indication of the level of use. Repeated use wears the blue finish from the bolt handle, so a nice crisp blue suggests low barrel "mileage". Rifles made after 1978 have a plastic knob on the handle, which doesn't wear with use.
The bolt should open and close smoothly, even if it's a bit dirty. It should extract and eject all cartridge cases, these don't have to be flung across the room, but must fall clear of the rifle. Most Anschutz bolts will eject properly, if kept reasonably clean, but very old rifles (those made before 1965) only have a single bolt claw and can be less reliable. Finally, the firing pin should leave a deep mark on the cartridge case, just inside the edge of the rim; this is important for accuracy, a weak strike can cause inconsistent grouping. Often a weak strike just means that the firing pin spring needs to be replaced, which is not expensive, but calls for a small discount.
Next look at the barrel, normally this will be the original factory made barrel, and will have appropriate factory markings (see my first post). However Anschutz barrels do wear out and lose accuracy eventually, and are often replaced. Replacement barrels are normally made of stainless steel, and are made by specialist barrel makers; Border, Maddco, and Lilja are common, and every bit as good as the original (and sometimes rather better).
Obviously the condition of the barrel is very important. It's difficult to assess the condition of the barrel without some specialist tools. But there are some things you can do. Firstly look along the bore; you want to see sharp clear rifling, with no dark spots, or other signs of rust. Rust is not desirable in the bore. If the bore is dirty, ask for it to be cleaned; be very suspicious if the seller refuses. Then look at the muzzle crown. The crown is very important to accuracy, so you don't want to see nicks, scratches or rust.
Next ask the seller what the round count is. A gunsmith may not know, but a private seller should have an idea. The fewer shots fired the better, as barrels do wear out. Some barrels last longer than others, but generally after 100,000 rounds groups can open up. High barrel mileage isn't automatic grounds to reject a rifle, but the price should reflect the level of wear. In some ways a well used rifle can be an economical choice, as even if you budget for the cost of a new barrel (about £700 for a top quality match-grade job), the rifle will be much cheaper than new.
If possible push a cleaning patch through the barrel; this will check for bulges . A bulge is a small loose spot where a squib bullet has become stuck and is knocked free by the next shot; the impact stretches the steel permanently. A patch will feel like it jumps when it meets a bulge. It is illegal to sell a rifle with a bulged barrel. Some barrels continue to shoot well even with a bulge, others don't; it's not a good risk to take.
If you want to know how old An Anschutz rifle is, look at the barrel. On the Left hand side, just head of the receiver are the proof marks. From 1961 these include the date the barrel was made and proof tested. From 1961 to 1977, these are simple numbers, since 1977 letters have been used instead. You may need a magnifying glass.
I'd expect a rifle to have a rearsight, or the price should be cheap. The rearsight should be fairly clean, rust and lots of crud suggest a lack of maintenance. Turn the turrets, they should be smooth, and the eyepiece should visibly move. Older rearsights often have a little slop. If there is an iris eyepiece this is a bonus.
If possible get an experienced club member to give you a second opinion. If buying privately, I'd ask for a test shoot; shooting with a sling you probably won't be able to tell an exceptional barrel form a so-so barrel, but you should be able to check for obvious inaccuracy, as well as fit, balance, and function. If you can't test fire, ask to see recent target or ammo test results; you want to see neat round groups, or high scores. The factory test target pasted in the manual is not acceptable, Don't expect a dealer to have the facilities to test fire.
Firstly, don't buy a rifle unseen. The seller may not be completely accurate in their description, usually through ignorance; it's very common to see any Supermatch rifle labelled an 1813, even when it's much too old. Always give any second hand rifle a good inspection as condition plays a big part in the price of a rifle. If you don't feel confident doing this alone, bring an experienced shooter from your club along with you.
In my opinion first impressions count. You want to see a rifle that looks neat and tidy. The barrel and action should be free of rust, except the odd pinprick on an older rifle. Heavy pitting or a brown tinge is not a good sign, as it means the owner was too lazy to wipe the barrel with an oily cloth, or stored it somewhere very damp; neither is good as there could be more rust underneath the action, or inside the barrel. Club rifles are often rusty.
The wood work should be reasonably tidy; small dings and handling marks are OK, but big dents, chips, or anything that makes the stock look like it was used as a cricket bat are not OK. If the stock has been altered (i.e. the butt shortened, or the cheekpiece reshaped), the work should look neat and professional; ham-fisted butchery may not affect how it shoots, but it doesn't look nice. What is more important is that there are no cracks at the wrist (the thinnest part of the grip) and around the bedding bolts. Tatty varnish doesn't affect accuracy, but a cracked stock will. Cracks can be repaired, but can leave a weak spot. Unless you can negotiate a big discount, I would reject a rifle with a cracked stock.
Check that the barrel is level in the stock, and has an even gap all around it (even underneath). Modern rifles have a free-floated barrel, this means the barrel does not touch the stock ahead of the action. Any contact between the barrel and the stock can cause poor or erratic grouping. I would also recommend asking for the barrel and stock to be separated to check the bedding area. Wood can be damaged by overtightening the bolts that hold in the barrel, and also by exposure to oil and cleaning solvents. You want to see healthy wood, and bedding bolts that have no damage to the heads. If the stock has been epoxy bedded, this is an advantage. This means that the wood under the action has been chiselled back, and replaced with a layer of metal-reinforced epoxy resin. The epoxy cures around the action to form a perfect low-stress fit, that doesn't change with the weather (wood can warp in hot or humid conditions).
The rifle must have a bolt, because the are expensive to buy separately. The bolt also has to be the right one, as it was individually fitted to the action. Look at the serial number (on the left hand side of the receiver, just ahead of the breech) and compare this with the 3 numbers stamped on the bolt nose. The numbers on the bolt should match the last three digits of the serial number. If the numbers don't match, I would be concerned. Replacing the bolt is a professional job.
If you are looking at an older rifle which has an all steel bolt handle, this can give an indication of the level of use. Repeated use wears the blue finish from the bolt handle, so a nice crisp blue suggests low barrel "mileage". Rifles made after 1978 have a plastic knob on the handle, which doesn't wear with use.
The bolt should open and close smoothly, even if it's a bit dirty. It should extract and eject all cartridge cases, these don't have to be flung across the room, but must fall clear of the rifle. Most Anschutz bolts will eject properly, if kept reasonably clean, but very old rifles (those made before 1965) only have a single bolt claw and can be less reliable. Finally, the firing pin should leave a deep mark on the cartridge case, just inside the edge of the rim; this is important for accuracy, a weak strike can cause inconsistent grouping. Often a weak strike just means that the firing pin spring needs to be replaced, which is not expensive, but calls for a small discount.
Next look at the barrel, normally this will be the original factory made barrel, and will have appropriate factory markings (see my first post). However Anschutz barrels do wear out and lose accuracy eventually, and are often replaced. Replacement barrels are normally made of stainless steel, and are made by specialist barrel makers; Border, Maddco, and Lilja are common, and every bit as good as the original (and sometimes rather better).
Obviously the condition of the barrel is very important. It's difficult to assess the condition of the barrel without some specialist tools. But there are some things you can do. Firstly look along the bore; you want to see sharp clear rifling, with no dark spots, or other signs of rust. Rust is not desirable in the bore. If the bore is dirty, ask for it to be cleaned; be very suspicious if the seller refuses. Then look at the muzzle crown. The crown is very important to accuracy, so you don't want to see nicks, scratches or rust.
Next ask the seller what the round count is. A gunsmith may not know, but a private seller should have an idea. The fewer shots fired the better, as barrels do wear out. Some barrels last longer than others, but generally after 100,000 rounds groups can open up. High barrel mileage isn't automatic grounds to reject a rifle, but the price should reflect the level of wear. In some ways a well used rifle can be an economical choice, as even if you budget for the cost of a new barrel (about £700 for a top quality match-grade job), the rifle will be much cheaper than new.
If possible push a cleaning patch through the barrel; this will check for bulges . A bulge is a small loose spot where a squib bullet has become stuck and is knocked free by the next shot; the impact stretches the steel permanently. A patch will feel like it jumps when it meets a bulge. It is illegal to sell a rifle with a bulged barrel. Some barrels continue to shoot well even with a bulge, others don't; it's not a good risk to take.
If you want to know how old An Anschutz rifle is, look at the barrel. On the Left hand side, just head of the receiver are the proof marks. From 1961 these include the date the barrel was made and proof tested. From 1961 to 1977, these are simple numbers, since 1977 letters have been used instead. You may need a magnifying glass.
I'd expect a rifle to have a rearsight, or the price should be cheap. The rearsight should be fairly clean, rust and lots of crud suggest a lack of maintenance. Turn the turrets, they should be smooth, and the eyepiece should visibly move. Older rearsights often have a little slop. If there is an iris eyepiece this is a bonus.
If possible get an experienced club member to give you a second opinion. If buying privately, I'd ask for a test shoot; shooting with a sling you probably won't be able to tell an exceptional barrel form a so-so barrel, but you should be able to check for obvious inaccuracy, as well as fit, balance, and function. If you can't test fire, ask to see recent target or ammo test results; you want to see neat round groups, or high scores. The factory test target pasted in the manual is not acceptable, Don't expect a dealer to have the facilities to test fire.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Thanks again Tim S,
I will be keeping my eyes open for good second hand deals around. I have just come back from the NSRA shop at Bisley and the price of new is quite high for a starter but nice guns all the same.
Thanks again for the info, greatly appreciated.
I will be keeping my eyes open for good second hand deals around. I have just come back from the NSRA shop at Bisley and the price of new is quite high for a starter but nice guns all the same.
Thanks again for the info, greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Dave.
Dave.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Alternatively you can simply purchase the cheapest Olympic type of rifle. Anschutz, Walther, etc. Even the cheapest (usually club level) is more than enough. The arm always shoots better than the athlete.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Conradin, I really have to disagree with you here. Buying a second hand rifle is the better option for a first time rifle buyer on a budget, because there are no cheap Olympic smallbore rifles; the Anschutz 1907, Walther KK300 Universal, or Feinwerkbau 2700 Universal are all entry-level models, but still cost £1,500-£2,000. I don't consider the Anschutz 1903 to be an Olympic rifle.conradin wrote:Alternatively you can simply purchase the cheapest Olympic type of rifle. Anschutz, Walther, etc. Even the cheapest (usually club level) is more than enough. The arm always shoots better than the athlete.
Nor would I particularly recommend a 1907/KK300 Universal/2700 Universal to an adult man wishing to shoot prone. The actions/barrels are all great, but the stocks are all basic, and the very deep fore-end places the sight line, centre-of-gravity, and grip much too high for comfort in Prone. The same caveats are true of any ISU Standard rifle, but a 1980s Anschutz 1807 will be massively cheaper, so the compromise becomes acceptable. However, if you are buying new, you don't want to compromise, and the Universal stocks are exactly that. For the cost of a new 1907/KK300 Universal/2700 Universal you can get a very high spec and little used second-hand rifle. You trade off a little barrel wear for a stock that is more suitable for prone, and often some fancy add-ons like rearsight and foresight iris apertures. Or you buy a slightly older rifle, and have money left over for a decent shooting jacket.
Oh, and for prone, the shooter isn't always the weakest link.
Last edited by Tim S on Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
There are one hell of a lot of good secondhand .22 rifles around, I gave mine away when I left the UK.
If you're not sure what you want then buy and sell secondhand, then buy new when you've worked it out.
If you're not sure what you want then buy and sell secondhand, then buy new when you've worked it out.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Thanks again, all good comments to think about.
Regards,
Dave.
Dave.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
In his amazingly comprehensive, detailed, and helpful posts, Tim mentions at one point the danger of a bulged barrel. He will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Anschutz barrels have a degree of choke towards the muzzle end, which causes a cleaning patch to meet mild resistance and then to 'jump' as it comes free. (Same effect as a mole probe has when it enters a mole run, if there are any mole trappers out there.) If I am right, this could be mistaken for a bulged barrel; if I am wrong, I have two 1800 series barrels that are bulged. Could be bad news for me, though they seem to shot o.k.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Thank you, but I think it would be very difficult to mistake a bulge for the muzzle choke. Primarily because there is no resistance before a bulge; the patch is moving under a steady push, and then suddenly jumps. When a patch exits the muzzle it will need a little more force, but then you see the patch sticking out of the barrel. Also in my experiences the bulges have occurred around the middle of the barrel, not at the very end.Cumbrian wrote:In his amazingly comprehensive, detailed, and helpful posts, Tim mentions at one point the danger of a bulged barrel. He will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Anschutz barrels have a degree of choke towards the muzzle end, which causes a cleaning patch to meet mild resistance and then to 'jump' as it comes free. If I am right, this could be mistaken for a bulged barrel; if I am wrong, I have two 1800 series barrels that are bulged. Could be bad news for me, though they seem to shot o.k.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
That's a relief - thank you. But is there in fact a degree of choking in Anschutz barrels? Just curious.Tim S wrote:Thank you, but I think it would be very difficult to mistake a bulge for the muzzle choke. Primarily because there is no resistance before a bulge; the patch is moving under a steady push, and then suddenly jumps. When a patch exits the muzzle it will need a little more force, but then you see the patch sticking out of the barrel. Also in my experiences the bulges have occurred around the middle of the barrel, not at the very end.Cumbrian wrote:In his amazingly comprehensive, detailed, and helpful posts, Tim mentions at one point the danger of a bulged barrel. He will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Anschutz barrels have a degree of choke towards the muzzle end, which causes a cleaning patch to meet mild resistance and then to 'jump' as it comes free. If I am right, this could be mistaken for a bulged barrel; if I am wrong, I have two 1800 series barrels that are bulged. Could be bad news for me, though they seem to shot o.k.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
Cumbrian,
yes it's commonly accepted that Anschutz barrels are choked. If I remember correctly, the slightly thicker section at the muzzle offers more resistance to the rifling button, leaving the bore slightly tighter.
yes it's commonly accepted that Anschutz barrels are choked. If I remember correctly, the slightly thicker section at the muzzle offers more resistance to the rifling button, leaving the bore slightly tighter.
Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
That's interesting, and makes perfect sense. I'd often wondered as I cleaned the barrel. Thank you.Tim S wrote:Cumbrian,
yes it's commonly accepted that Anschutz barrels are choked. If I remember correctly, the slightly thicker section at the muzzle offers more resistance to the rifling button, leaving the bore slightly tighter.
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redschietti
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Re: First .22 Rifle choice, opinions required
The barrels are bored and rifled as blanks, then They are milled to diameter and shape. Removing material allows the bore to expand a bit I think. In USA we are seeing barrels that taper the whole length of the barrel now. Better?????