Hello all, a crossover from the Highpower side, some of you may recognize me from USRifleteams. FIrst a bit of background,former Junior 3p smallbore shooter, HP Distinguished, XTC HM, I have shot a few rimfire prone matches at my local club. I also help run our Junior HP team. I am looking to get more invovled in smallbore prone, 50 and 100yd, and get some of my juniors involved in it as well.
In my possession, anschutz 1413 Supermatch 54, the previous owner used this rifle to set a national record a long time ago, he claims it needs a new barrel.
Gun is pre barrel dated, from the late 50's. Gun was bedded by an AMU armorer in the 80's.
anschutz 2007/2013 in wood stock. I have not scope/bench tested the gun but shot a match with it and got off call shots with it.
With my anscutz 2013, I keep getting off call shots, not by a bit, but like an 8, Im shooting quality ammo, Eley practice 100 and 10x, I do have some r50 and lapua master but have not tried it. I purchased a harrels tuner and bloop tube for the gun, put a scope on it, and did bench testing, still got fliers, but was able to tune it somewhat better.
I know your thinking that "Its rimfire, you have position/followthrough problems". I thought so too, but shot a match with my Rem37 and shot my best score, every 9 was called. Bench testing this gun with a unertl 10x showed it to group extremely well, even with lower grades of eley ammo.
So I want to have top level rimfire prone gun. Im thinking one of my anschutz, I have two more 54's in the stable to choose from, should be sent out for a new barrel and bedding job. Will an aftermarket barrel preform that much better than a Factory Annie? If so which one for 50-100yd prone shooting. Who should I send it out to for chambering and bedding. Also will probably add an adjustable cheekpiece to the 1413 but I can do that myself.
I know the easy answer is shoot your 37, but that gun is very old and parts may become an issue if something breaks. I also dont want to ruin the collector value on the gun, its in beautiful shape.
New Member intro and questions
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Re: New Member intro and questions
If the previous owner shot a National Record with it and says it needs a new barrel, why don't you believe him?
Re: New Member intro and questions
Because he had gotten up in years and his eyesight had failed , even by his own admission. Even so , my 2013 is fairly new and shouldn't be throwing shots . Obviously the 1413 could use a new barrel just due to age and amount of use alone, but which one and who to install.
On the 2013 are the lija drop in barrels any better? Should I send it out for rebarrel? Or should I sell these old ones and start over ?
Who to recommend for the bedding ?
On the 2013 are the lija drop in barrels any better? Should I send it out for rebarrel? Or should I sell these old ones and start over ?
Who to recommend for the bedding ?
Re: New Member intro and questions
Firstly, if you have any doubts that the previous owner of the 1413 was wrong, and the barrel is not shot out, why not bench it and prove to yourself whether it is or not?
As for the 2013, how old is it, and what is the round count on the barrel? It's possible that the barrel is worn out, but it's not the only answer for off-call shots. Have you checked the headspace, the firing pin, and spring? Are these still in spec? Headspace can open up with use, and firing pins and spring wear down. Good ignition seems to be important for good accuracy. Also how often, and how, has the barrel been cleaned? .22s don't leave much fouling but over time crud (especially lead at rough spots) can build up enough to impair accuracy. Also Practice 100 is not what I'd call quality grade ammo, it's seriously down graded Match/Tenex, and so could be responsible for the 8s. Personally before I replaced the barrel I'd give the rifle a thorough clean, have the action checked (replacing the pin or spring if needed), and test the RWS and Lapua ammo.
If you do need to replace a barrel, I'd probably go for the 2013 over the 1413, as it has a much better trigger (assuming the 1413 is original), a faster lock time, and two extractors for more reliable extraction. As for the barrel, I'd pick the gunsmith first, as they may have a preference for a particular brand, or may not be able to get your chosen brand for some time vs. a different make they have in stock. Most barrels appear to be able to win if properly fitted.
As for the 2013, how old is it, and what is the round count on the barrel? It's possible that the barrel is worn out, but it's not the only answer for off-call shots. Have you checked the headspace, the firing pin, and spring? Are these still in spec? Headspace can open up with use, and firing pins and spring wear down. Good ignition seems to be important for good accuracy. Also how often, and how, has the barrel been cleaned? .22s don't leave much fouling but over time crud (especially lead at rough spots) can build up enough to impair accuracy. Also Practice 100 is not what I'd call quality grade ammo, it's seriously down graded Match/Tenex, and so could be responsible for the 8s. Personally before I replaced the barrel I'd give the rifle a thorough clean, have the action checked (replacing the pin or spring if needed), and test the RWS and Lapua ammo.
If you do need to replace a barrel, I'd probably go for the 2013 over the 1413, as it has a much better trigger (assuming the 1413 is original), a faster lock time, and two extractors for more reliable extraction. As for the barrel, I'd pick the gunsmith first, as they may have a preference for a particular brand, or may not be able to get your chosen brand for some time vs. a different make they have in stock. Most barrels appear to be able to win if properly fitted.
Re: New Member intro and questions
I didn't realize that headspace was important to accuracy in a rimfire, in center fire it's throat length that is the issue. Anyway I'll check the headspace, but I believe the only 22 lr gauges I have are simply 22 match and were ordered with my reamer for an old job I did. Honestly all the different chambers for 22 lr astounds me because each one requires it's own hs gauges. I thought hs remained the same as 22lr is on the case rim and not the chamber itself . What chamber is an anschutz and what gauges should I buy?
I'll also try other ammo , I was told the practice was good ammo. I have to figure out how to mount a scope on the 1413 as the mount for the 2013 does not fit.
Any recommendation on a smith to barrel my gun? I understand chambering a rimfire for match accuracy is a totally different animal than centet fire and don't want to blow a 400$ barrel .
I'll also try other ammo , I was told the practice was good ammo. I have to figure out how to mount a scope on the 1413 as the mount for the 2013 does not fit.
Any recommendation on a smith to barrel my gun? I understand chambering a rimfire for match accuracy is a totally different animal than centet fire and don't want to blow a 400$ barrel .
Re: New Member intro and questions
Also where can I find the specs for the firing pin and spring on both guns ? Also the2013 is from the late 90's early. 00's. Round count is somewhere around 10,000 but probably significantly less. I both guns are thourougly and properly cleaned from the rear with a guide and Dewey rod.
Re: New Member intro and questions
.22LR does indeed headspace on the rim. SAMMI min and max are 0.043in and 0.046in; target rifles tend to be around the small end, Anschutz HS is typically 0.043-44in*. HS over 0.046in is considered excessive . You can buy a set of graduated gauges, normally in 0.001in or 0.0005in steps. You can then use these gauges on any .22LR barrel.
HS is important for accuracy, because the final seating of the bullet into the barrel is done by the bolt as it locks into battery. If HS is excessive, the bullet won't be seated flush against the barrel face by the bolt, so it can move forwards when struck by the firing pin, absorbing the blow and delaying ignition. When the cartridge does fire, some of the force of the propellant gas will go to expanding the case head to fit the HS.
If the round count is only 10,000 I'd be surprised if HS is excessive already, unless it was set at the top end of Anschutz's tolerance. The same goes for the barrel; normally I advocate regular cleaning, but it might be worthwhile leaving it dirty, as some barrels take a large number of fouling shots to settle down from clean. Yours could be one of these. Your 2013 barrel may just be fussy and will respond better to different ammo, or it could be a bit average combined with unsuitable ammo.
As for firing pin specs, the figures I've been quoted are 0.030in protrusion, and strike depth in the case of 0.011in. Oh I believe Anschutz use a proprietary chamber design.
Your 1413 is probably grooved only behind the breech, which is why the 2013-scope doesn't fit. You either need a set of reach forward mounts like these http://www.bkltech.com/BKL-4-inch-Long- ... kl-254.htm, or use a long barrel mounted 'scope as you use on your Rem 37.
*A custom-barrelled rifle may be slightly tighter say 0.041-42in (the smallbore equivalent of a tight neck); one Swiss rifle reportedly has a very tight HS of 0.039in, to suit Eley ammunition which has a very thin rim, in fact it's so tight that separate bolt parts are recommended for thicker-rimmed RWs and Lapua ammo.
HS is important for accuracy, because the final seating of the bullet into the barrel is done by the bolt as it locks into battery. If HS is excessive, the bullet won't be seated flush against the barrel face by the bolt, so it can move forwards when struck by the firing pin, absorbing the blow and delaying ignition. When the cartridge does fire, some of the force of the propellant gas will go to expanding the case head to fit the HS.
If the round count is only 10,000 I'd be surprised if HS is excessive already, unless it was set at the top end of Anschutz's tolerance. The same goes for the barrel; normally I advocate regular cleaning, but it might be worthwhile leaving it dirty, as some barrels take a large number of fouling shots to settle down from clean. Yours could be one of these. Your 2013 barrel may just be fussy and will respond better to different ammo, or it could be a bit average combined with unsuitable ammo.
As for firing pin specs, the figures I've been quoted are 0.030in protrusion, and strike depth in the case of 0.011in. Oh I believe Anschutz use a proprietary chamber design.
Your 1413 is probably grooved only behind the breech, which is why the 2013-scope doesn't fit. You either need a set of reach forward mounts like these http://www.bkltech.com/BKL-4-inch-Long- ... kl-254.htm, or use a long barrel mounted 'scope as you use on your Rem 37.
*A custom-barrelled rifle may be slightly tighter say 0.041-42in (the smallbore equivalent of a tight neck); one Swiss rifle reportedly has a very tight HS of 0.039in, to suit Eley ammunition which has a very thin rim, in fact it's so tight that separate bolt parts are recommended for thicker-rimmed RWs and Lapua ammo.