A few anschutz 1411 questions

[Muffo]

I just purchased an old 1411 and i have a few questions about it. firstly i noticed when you dry fire it the bolt rotates slightly. should this happen. i can imagine the bolt moving while firing would help accuracy. secondly im not a fan of the trigger at all. its not exactly light and it still has the trouble of the sear letting go if you close the bolt to quick or hard. i might be able to fix this with a good clean and pollish but not sure yet. also it has a big drop off in pressure when the sear lets go which drives me nuts because i mainly shoot air pistol with an electronic trigger and free pistol where all the weight comes from the spring not the seer so there is no drop in pressure.

[Tim S]

Muffo,

which part of the bolt rotates? The Anschutz Match 54, like most smallbore actions, has a non-rotatating bolt. The main bolt body (the white metal bit) just moves back and forth. It's only the collar by the handle (where the locking lugs are) that rotates to lock the bolt into battery.

If you're seeing the body move when dry firing, it may just be a reaction to the firing pin hitting the internal stop. Are you using snap caps or a spent case to cushion the strike? If the handle is moving, make sure that you have the bolt fully closed, otherwise the firing pin will be partially bearing on the bolt cam, not fully the trigger sear. This could make the bolt handle rotate as the pin jumps from cam to sear, and then releases.

As for the trigger, certainly yes, give it a very thorough clean and lube. The issue of the trigger not holding back the firing pin is usually caused by insufficient sear engagement and/or weight. You may be able to correct this with careful readjustment (and the good clean). If you don't know which trigger you have, or don't have instructions for it, go to the Anschutz website; they have user manuals for most models available as free PDF downloads. Depending on its age, your rifle is likely to have a single stage trigger, but could have a two-stage. Anschutz made two versions of their single-stage trigger. Both are mechanically identical, but one was factory set for a 500g release, and the other for a 3lb release to suit various domestic rulebooks. If you have the heavier trigger, it won't safely adjust super light, although it can be made lighter by changing springs.

It's possible that the trigger surfaces have simply worn; after all even the youngest 1411s are nearly 40 years old.

While you clean the trigger, I'd also recommend disassembling the bolt to inspect the firing pin for wear (burrs can develop), and give it all a thorough scrub. The inside of the bolt body is likely to be filthy. If you are feeling brave, remove the extractor claws, and clean these ans their recesses; you need a small screwdriver to lever out the claw, and a large clear plastic bag to contain verything as you work. When you reassemble, smaear a tiny dab of grease on the cocking cam (the V notch by the bolt handle) and on the front and back surfaces of the locking lugs.

[Muffo]

its the body of the bolt moving. it rotates anti clockwise. using an empty case. the other thing i noticed is the firing pin hits very hard. 3 dry fires without rotating the case all but distroys the case

[Tim S]

The damage to the case is normal. The Older Match 54 rifles have a big heavy firing pin, and a strong spring. Later models use lighter pins and springs, and still chew up snap caps and cases. Rotating cases every few dry fires, or swapping to a new one is sensible to avoid any chance of peening the barrel face.

I suspect the movement of the bolt is just a reaction to the movement and impact of the firing pin; the case may be tugging on the extractor claws. If you are in doubt, shoot the rifle from a bench, or test ring, and see whether accuracy is impaired.

[jhmartin]

its the body of the bolt moving. it rotates anti clockwise. using an empty case. the other thing i noticed is the firing pin hits very hard. 3 dry fires without rotating the case all but distroys the case

Cases and snap-caps are either tough to insert, or fragile.
Go to your hardware store and get a pack of #4 drywall anchors. They insert easily and eject like a spent case and last longer than the brass or hard plastic.

[justadude]

For dry firing on my early to mid 70s Match 54 actions I have a very weak spring (sourced from my local hardware store) I use when dry firing. Does not chew up cases or caps anywhere near as fast.

As for the trigger: I am guessing this is the old style with the slender steel frame. There is a screw on the right hand side that sets sear engagement. Turn this out about 1/8 of a turn and that should make it stop releasing when you close the bolt hard.

Now, I am also guessing this is the single stage trigger as you had to REALLY mis-adjust the two stage triggers to get them to slam fire. Is the trigger a curved piece of steel or a movable piece of aluminum shaped like an L?

Finally, is it a 5 or 6 digit serial number? If 5 digits, what are the first two digits or if 6, what are the first 3?

'Dude

[Tim S]

Finally, is it a 5 or 6 digit serial number? If 5 digits, what are the first two digits or if 6, what are the first 3?

'Dude

'Dude,

you think the bolt is mismatched?

[justadude]

Tim,

Bolt mismatch, that is a good point.

Muffo: check the face of the bolt, there should be three digits stamped into the face, those digits should match the last three digits of the serial number on the receiver.

In cases like these I often ask for the first digits of the serial number so I can get a handle on which generation of the M54 action it is. Given that any round M54 will bed into any of the stocks I never trust the "oh the guy said it was a ......." This is a real problem here in the states, people get ahold of barrel stamped Model 1813 bolted into a an 1807 stock and they are convinced the rifle is worth several hundred dollars more than it is. I digress.

Just to watch my own vintage M54, I pulled it out of the safe and dry fired it. The body of the bolt and bolt handle remained perfectly still, the wing on the rear of the bolt does drop down slightly when the trigger releases. So yes, the very rear section of the bolt rotates upon firing.

'Dude

[Muffo]

its one of the early single extractor ones. it first 2 digits are 43. the bolt matches. it was a a single owner rifle and hadnt really been shit a lot becasue he purchased 2 at a similar time and mainly used the one with the thumbhole stock.
its the front of the bolt rotating it does it worse if you dry fire it empty.

[Andre]

FWIW, the bolt body on my 54 also rotates when firing. Bolt and components are all stock.

[Muffo]

FWIW, the bolt body on my 54 also rotates when firing. Bolt and components are all stock.

ok so it might not be an issue. i will just have to test it off a bench

[justadude]

OK,

In the interest of full disclosure, the first M54 action I tried out (starts 117xxx) has been massaged and tuned so the head space is a little tighter than your average everyday anschutz.

I just tried this again with a second rifle I picked up this winter as a base for a new prone gun. While not an excessive number of rounds it was not well cared for. The action and barrel are box stock. When you dry fire this one the body of the bolt will rotate anti-clockwise (from behind the action).

I have to figure this has something to do with the mainspring unwinding as it decompresses. Never really noticed it before.

'Dude

[justadude]

Oh yeah,

The basic box stock rifle has serial 107xxx

'Dude

[Muffo]

so today i got to do some testing off a bench but without a benchrest. i used an f class bipod. this set up allows me to shoot consistent 1/4 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards with my full bore rifle

[Muffo]

now this was some of the results and they basicly all looked like this.

the rifle isnt bedded but i cant imagine it making it that woefully shit. my old model 1 brno sporting 22 will shoot groups a quater of that size with tenex

[Muffo]

theses are the 2 groups i shot prone. bare in mind i have only been shooting small bore for 4 weeks but i am a pistol shooter.
i had one high shot called in each group. im beginning to wonder if i bought a dud rifle.

[Tim S]

If the rifle is new to you, have you cleaned the barrel thoroughly yet? I mean a soak with your solvent of choice, and then a bronze brush. Your rifle appears to be of early-mid 1960s vintage, so there could be years of accumulated crud in the bore, particularly lead. You may need fouling shots (maybe many) afterwards, but you have a benchmark to work from, and can also assess when you need to clean to maintain accuracy.

Is the crown good, no nicks, burrs, or ovaling?

Is the headspace in spec (0.043in - 0.046in)? Too much headspace, and cartridges won't be seated properly against the breech, so can move when struck by the firing pin. This leads to inconsistent ignition, and erratic accuracy. Headspace can expand with heavy use (the shoulder where the body abuts the handle flattens).

Is the barrel free-floated? There should be an even gap all around (if your barrel tapers, a larger gap towards the muzzle would be normal). Contact between barrel and wood will place stress on the barrel, so it doesn't vibrate consistently. Contact could just be wood warping with age, but it can be a sign that the bedding is faulty.

What's the bedding like? Are there any signs that the wood under the bolts has been compressed, or softened by oil or cleaning solvents? Do the bolts tighten easily, and are the slots clean? With the stock off, count how many turns are needed to fully seat the bolts, and then try with the stock on; if you need more turns on the second go, the wood has been compressed. It wasn't unknown with older Match 54s to tighten the bolts a bit too much. The action could now be slightly loose.

Beyond that, how much practise have you had with aperture sights? If you shoot your fullbore rifle with a 'scope, why not test the Anschutz with one, that way you remove some of the human error. The prone groups, if shot with a sling, are very good after only four weeks. It takes longer than that to build up the muscle memory that lets you recognise when the position is good, and when you're inducing muscular tension.

[Cumbrian]

now this was some of the results and they basicly all looked like this.

the rifle isnt bedded but i cant imagine it making it that woefully shit. my old model 1 brno sporting 22 will shoot groups a quater of that size with tenex

FWIW, I'd say that the rifle is not so leaded up that it can't distinguish between different lots of ammunition. Look at the poor results for CCI and the slight but interesting superiority of Eley Edge over Tenex, despite the price difference. I would certainly clean the bore thoroughly and then go in for some extensive batch testing. It's amazing how good quality but not too pricey ammunition, such as Lapua Centre X, can perform as well as the most expensive if you take the time and trouble to find the batch that really suits your rifle. Equally, the most expensive can perform dismally if it doesn't like your particular barrel.

[Muffo]

I havent cleaned the barrel. the person I bought it off said he gave it a good clean and it looked very clean so I took his word for it. I will give it a really good clean tomorrow because its not much use starting out with a rifle that already seems to be no more accurate than I am.

The crown and throat both look good to me without having a bore scope.

Not sure about the head space as I can measure it. I guess this will be a job for a gunsmith if I cant get it shooting well

The barrel is well floated I can slide a 50m target between the barrel and stock

The bedding seems really good. no sign of compression or pressure points. it takes 9 turns to seat the bolts without the stock and 7 and a half to set them with the stock on. I will get a pic of the bedding when my phone charges. but it looks like new

I havent had a lot of time at all with aperture sights. Only 4 weeks. I have only shot my full bore rifle with a scope for load development. I have shot it once with aperture sights at 500 and 600 yards and only dropped 1 point. It may just be me not usinng the sights right. I would mount a scope to rule this out but the action only has a dovetail on the rear of the action so I would have to get the action milled.

The prone groups are shot with a sling and jacket

[Tim S]

Cleaning means different things to different people: partly because barrels respond differently, but also because many shooters are not taught properly. I knew one chap who considered a single pass with a nylon brush every few years to be enough. That's fine if that's what your rifle needs, but his scores suggested otherwise.

When you do clean, pay attention to how the patch moves through the bore. You want it to move smoothly under a steady push. It's OK if the patch needs a little more force at the muzzle, but if this happens further back, there may be tight spots that can swage down the bullet. If the patch jumps suddenly before the muzzle you may have a bulge in the bore (also called a ring); this is a loose spot where a duff bullet stuck, and was knocked free by the next shot. Lead doesn't compress so the impact stretches the barrel steel beyond its ability to spring back. Bulges can (but don't always) wreck accuracy. Repair basically entails shortening the barrel, so it's difficult unless the bulge is near either end. Bulges are rare though.

Headspace is checked by closing the bolt on graduated gauges that look like little steel cartridge cases. Mine were made by an engineer friend and paid for in beer. Excess headspace can be reduced by shims on later models, but I'm not sure about 1400 models, the detent catch in the handle can get in the way.

Roger's suggestion of further testing is sensible. Smallbore barrels can be fussy, and the bull is small, so don't expect that any randomly chosen ammo will all give really tight groups, no matter what label it has. Serious prone shooters are really anal about their ammo, and will test different production lots, not just brands.

It might also be an idea to check how well the cheekpiece supports your head; ideally this should support your head so your eye is centred behind the aperture. Often a little tweaking is beneficial; card and tape is fine for starters. As a pistol shooter you'll be used to customising grips.

Again, well done on the groups. Prone isn't as easy as it looks.